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   Ahmad Raza
Thursday, January 7, 2010 02:06 PM PST 
Reply: >
Suggestion needed
Dear All;

I need the views/suggestions of all respectable readers of this forum.

I have a 10M plot in Sector B, Bahria town. I am planning to start construction of my house in 2-3 months time. Before doing that,i want to find out if there are any risks/hurdles/surprises involved in constructing the house. For example, the biggest concern i have come to know is that Bahria town is owned by a single owner/family and if something goes wrong against him by any coming government, what would be the future???. If Bahria/Malik Riaz goes down bcoz of his problems with any government and government takes over Bahria,then
1. what would happen to the people living in BT (quality of services)
2. How would the sale/purchase of properties go in the area.

I am just sharing the worst case scenario keeping in view the single man ownership and .


I personally have nothing against Bahria or Malik Riaz but i have to calculate the risk on my hard earned investment.

Best regards to all....Ahmad Raza
Azad K replied on Friday, January 8, 2010 04:45 AM PST 

I remember someone saying the same thing to me that it is a one man band a few years ago, and my reaction was that great works are not created by committees but by strong individuals. I would rather have a good product controlled by one person than a mediocre product controlled by a committee. Having said that the courts in Pakistan should act as a check and balance against strong individuals and safeguard the public interest.
Azad K replied on Friday, January 8, 2010 06:41 PM PST 

If you have a plot on the ground then it does not matter what happens to Riaz Malik as nobody can take the plot away from you. If you don't have a plot on the ground then they can say that they don't have enough land or that there is no money to complete development. However people like Mr Malik rise to the top with the support of all political forces and will remain in everyones good books, whoever comes to power that is my personal view. The bigger Bahria Town becomes and the more people that work for it and the more the people live there the difficult it becomes for anyone to harm Bahria.
Hussain Kaisrani replied on Friday, January 8, 2010 09:17 PM PST 

Ahmad Raza Sahib,
Thanks for your remarks about me. I am only a student of property related matters and learnt every thing from this site, its members and its organizers.
Your questions are very much related to future and my knowledge about future is very limited so I avoid commenting about these matters.
For being on safe side one can adopt registry process. I personally do not think that any serious problem may occur to Bahria Town existing plots and houses as every houses is approved from Govt. authorities like TMA etc. Besides this Bahria Town has its members in all sphere of life. Thousands of resident will be able to manage the society if Malik Riaz Sahib has not yet made any system for running it properly after his death.
Hussain Kaisrani replied on Friday, January 8, 2010 09:19 PM PST 

I missed to read Azad K Sahib's views before posting my comments. He has written more nicely what I wanted to say. Thanks Sir. People like him may be called GURU's of property.
abce replied on Friday, January 8, 2010 11:01 PM PST 

Property dealers are like Animals, they are the gandi nali kut-as. Ashraf sahib please don't base where to invest your hard earned life savings on the views on these kut-as.
Saqib replied on Saturday, January 9, 2010 01:57 AM PST 

Mr. Raza,

I like your commitment and attitude for research. You have to weigh the alternate options. Assume the answer to all of your questions is not positive. Pick up the option which you feel is better than Bahria or satisfies your question. I do not know which country you are in but if USA's economy can go into doldrums despite the best intellectual capital available with them and Dubai real estate can have all the problems, Largest banks in USA can get bankrupt, I do not really know what kind of guarantees you are looking for. Evaluate what you know and what you can reasonably foresee and put the trust in Allah.
you can foresee. And trust in Allah.
Ahmad Raza replied on Saturday, January 9, 2010 04:14 AM PST 

Dear all,

At first, i would like to thank Mr. Hussain kaisrani for writing a response and Mr. Azad for his valuable comments.

I know a lot of qualities in BT, thats why i bought a plot there and am planning to build my house. Saqib Sb, I am not looking for any guarantees. What i am trying to do is to evaluate the worst case scenarios, which may be created after Malik Riaz (i.e. his death, going to jail, fighting between his daughters and son for the ownership of property). I really wish and pray that nothing like this ever happen to BT, Malik Riaz or his family. I know they have done a lot of hardwork and efforts to reach where they are today.

I am concluding on following points here.

1. Mr. Kaisrani said that the houses are being built after approval from TMA which means you have records at BT office and TMA office for houses only and not the plots. Third place can be the bank if you want to get some bank loan.

2. Mr. Azad had a point that if you have possession of ur plot, have built a house on it and living there then no one can take this property from you.

3. In the end i think, if something goes wrong, then sale/purchase of property will slow down for a while until things get clear in public opinion.

4. Quality of services might also be affected until BT management again gain strength or people in BT will make some organisation and run it by themselves. I know that there is already one small group of people in BT who elect their general secretary and other positions in the group.

5. I really dont know if Mr. Zardari or any other political force in government takes over the BT office and records then what will they do with it. How the transfers will be done, by patwari or who??? Just look what happened to Khanani and Kalia and where all this money is gone??

Well readers, I am not preaching here but i am discussing/addressing the negative points of BT which were told to me by various property dealers and some of those were true by the way...but not all.

Ashraf Sb, Before buying my plot, i found out that Bahria town is approved by TMA not LDA. NFCII behind BT is now approved by LDA so technically speaking BT should be approved by LDA as well. It would be a positve step and will improve the credibility of BT.

This is all what i think...if someone has better information, he is welcome to share. Too much discssion on this topic might give impression that we are lobbying against BT soI dont want to write a lot on this bcoz i dont want to create problems for the management of this forum.

Thank you very much to all...Ahmad Raza
Azad K replied on Saturday, January 9, 2010 04:20 AM PST 

Mr Kaisrani thank you for your comments although I am not an expert.

Mr Raza nobody has a crystal ball and as Saqib has rightly stated that there is always a risk in business and investment. I cannot make your decision for you, I cannot give you all the information that you need. The world is imperfect and we must do the best that we can. I can say that the standards of schemes are generally increasing as people have or will become acustomed to the best services so I don't think that things will generally get worse but I think schemes will generally improve in the future.

You need to decide a) what is your goal or objective b) what options do you have c) which is the best option keeping in mind your goals.

Nobody needs to tell you what grounds to invest in. The ground for investment should always be the return on capital in a given timeframe.If everybody knew where they can get the best return on their money and without taking any risk then we would all be very rich. If you don't know where to get the best returns then you have to go for the option that you would feel comfortable with, assuming that your investment does badly.
Azad K replied on Saturday, January 9, 2010 06:23 AM PST 

Regarding your last post Mr Raza, in my mind the following things would happen in your given scenarios.

a) Riaz Malik dies. His son is taking an active role in the management of the company and it has a strong top management that will still be in place and remain.

b) Riaz Malik goes to jail. His son is taking an active role in the management of the company and it has a strong top management that will still be in place and remain.


c) Inheritance of Bahria following the demise of Riaz Malik. A person like Riaz Malik should be smart enough to leave behind a will and to groom the future leadership of the company. Bahria will still remain and so will the management, who has what shareholding in the company after Riaz Malik's death is irelevant to us.

Another scenario that you did not mention is what would happen if Bahria Town becomes bankrupt or ceases to trade. The plot and houses on the ground will still remain, the infrastructure will still remain. Somebody else may come in and acquire Bahria or administer it or its assets or the housing schemes. The only people to suffer may be owners of files where development hasn't taken place, but hopefully they should still own the land in question as Bahria cannot run away with the land unless Bahria has sold more files than it has land.

Sometimes there is no right or wrong investment decision but just what you feel comfortable in investing in, or if not a investment then where you feel comfortable living and what best matches your criteria.
Visitor replied on Saturday, January 9, 2010 03:50 PM PST 

Mr Azad K. Thanks for sharing your knowledge of analyzing the situation on the basis of available information while keeping in view the objectives/goals. I do agree that in each case you can't totally eliminate the risk but one may choose the way with minimum risk. Wishing you more wisdom, happiness and sucessess.

Mr Ahmad Raza. Definitely your post on the issue has generated many valuable information for the visitors of this site including me. Hope all of your presumptions are answered by the learned friends including Mr Azad K. Wish you best of luck
Ahmad Raza replied on Saturday, January 9, 2010 11:12 PM PST 

Dear Visitor,

I have tried to summarize the major concerns/issues regarding BT, which i have been hearing from many property dealers and basic objective was to know what others think about these questions. Other people like me might have these questions in mind so i think this is a healthy discussion.

Mr. Azad:

Thanks for your observations/comments.

In one of your posts you said that ""Mr Raza nobody has a crystal ball and as Saqib has rightly stated that there is always a risk in business and investment. I cannot make your decision for you, I cannot give you all the information that you need""AND ""Nobody needs to tell you what grounds to invest in""

My response is that i had already made my decision and bought a plot in BT few months ago. I am not looking towards someone else to make decisions for me. I am also not looking for a crystal ball.

I just floated the questions which were in my mind. Objective was to analyse some worst case scearios, bring these views in public and ask the pinion of all respected readers of this forum. You seem to understand my questions in your third reply of this post but its ok.

But i appreciate your response. You seem to know too much about Malik Riaz Son. Do you really think h is capable of handling the company. I wish and pray that God give a long life to Malik Riaz and we dont see any of the scenarios. I dont think something bad will happen when he is in office as he understand the pakistani style of doing buisness.

Best regards to all....
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   Imran
Wednesday, January 6, 2010 05:54 PM PST 
Reply: >
Bahria Town Sec - C, lahore
Salam
I have original allotment of 10 M plot in rose block, bahria town. All installments are duly paid while 1 file was merged in it. Installments are clear since March, 2007. what is its present worth?
saeedusa replied on Wednesday, January 6, 2010 11:00 PM PST 

Can some body provide information that which bahria office in lahore you need to go to deposit the money for dev charges and also,fine too and Which office Mr. Ahsan sit if we need to talk to him about the fine money because i'm not in pakistan and i have to send some body there to talk to him.I would really appreciate the information?
fdsfs replied on Thursday, January 7, 2010 02:04 AM PST 

he is the highest authorized officer for Sector C plots, only he has the power to write of the debts. I guess now he sits in the Bahria Orchard transfer office.
info replied on Thursday, January 7, 2010 04:25 AM PST 

you could email BT.

,
Hussain Kaisrani replied on Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:48 AM PST 

saeedusa Sahib,
Mr. Ahsan is a nice, open and friendly person and he sits in Bahria Orchards office. Any one can meet him in his office. It will be better to adopt the procedure which is as follows:
1. Please call Bahria Orchard office to confirm if Ahsan Sahib is present in his office. Contact numbers are .
2. Go to Reception and get account statement of your plot by showing them record or registration numbers etc.
3. Write an application regarding waiving off the fine / surcharge mentioning the reasons why you have not been able to pay the amount causing surcharge. It may be Bahria Office fault that they did not communicate the issue properly or the plot was not developed so you were not sure whether you will be able to get the plot or not or you could not arrange funds.
4. Present this application before Ahsan Sahib and start negotiation with him. You may offer him that you are here to pay full development charges if he removes the surcharge.
5. Be calm and normal and set a goal to get at least Rs.50,000/= waiving off of the fine. Its normal if you succeed to 50% waive off.
Good luck!
Gp Capt Irfan replied on Thursday, January 7, 2010 02:20 PM PST 

I would like to record my gratitude for Mr Hussain Kaisrani Sahib for his noble services of guiding people. May ALMIGHTY ALLAH reward him.
Irfan Khattak replied on Thursday, January 7, 2010 02:26 PM PST 

I would like to record my gratitude for Mr Hussain Kaisrani Sahib for his noble services of guiding people. May ALMIGHTY ALLAH reward him (Aameen)
saeedusa replied on Thursday, January 7, 2010 09:53 PM PST 

Mr Hussain Kaisrani SB;
Thanks for your kind information and we all like to thank you for your participation on this forum.
adeeba replied on Friday, January 8, 2010 03:50 PM PST 

Kaisrani Sahab ijust want to share with u my personal experince with mr Ahsan and other bahria officials. I bought a 10 marla plot in takbeer block in 2005. At that time i was told that the area of my plot is 14.50 marla. They asked me to pay access land. I paid and got possesion. Now i wanted to build a house on my plot. i got drawing from a reputed architect and have given contract to a bulider but when the size of plot was measured i came to know that the plot is 11.5 marla instead of 14.5 marla. i was really worried and i personally met mr Ahsan with application and told him whole the situation. He told me that he will investigate the situation then let me know. He also told me that this investigation will take 2 weeks. after 3 weeks i called him and asked abt the matter, He told he has forwarded application to Bahria architect in Sec B so u contact with mr Wasim the bahria Archetect. when i contacted him he told me that area of ur plot is definately short so wht u have to do for further u plz contact to col Ijaz. i met him with the drawing i have made for the house. He admited that it was bahria's mistake so he told me that on periority basises he will refund my paid amount which was i paid for access land. when i asked for refund after 1.5 month to mr ahsan he told me that refund will be sanction from pindi and i have forwarded ur case. but still i am waiting for refund. I have experinced very rude attitudes from all bahria officials including me ahsan. i suffered a great loss but no one there in bahria town ready to comensate me. I really have disappointed bahria atttude. I finally decided to dispose off the plot and get plot somewhere else.
abce replied on Friday, January 8, 2010 11:01 PM PST 

I second that some BT officials and totally uncooperative and rude.
Hussain Kaisrani replied on Saturday, January 9, 2010 12:23 AM PST 

Dear adeeba!
Many thanks for sharing your views with all of us. I am sorry to know that you faced problem dealing with Bahria Town staff. Almost every second member some way or the other had gone through some problems (Unfortunately you will face these kinds of problem almost every where). If the staff would have been responsible then why people like me needed to share information here. These kinds of forums should have been managed by marketing staff of Bahria Town. I fully agree with you that staff avoids to take responsibility of any problem.
Whatever I said about Ahsan Sahib is only this that one can easily talk to him as he is open and frank. I am encouraging visitors of this page that they should try their best to save their money by talking and negotiating. In case of waiving off surcharge Mr. Ahsan is full and final authority. He will either agree or disagree so one should try best for paying any surcharge etc. Thanks.
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