Lahore Real Estate Forum

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Wednesday, June 26, 2019 02:12 PM PST 
Long term Realestate Investment

with the relaxation of LRE policies I am starting writing again , I am non resident Pakistani

I am long-term property investor, and have invested in almost all reputed housing societies in Lahore. The Rule of thumb had been if you invest in slump you have almost no chance of losing at least in terms of Pakistani Rupees,
I started investing about 13 years back and had versatile experience of buying but not selling. Especially residential , The Investment which I Bough About 10 years back are about 5 to 6 times growth in Pakistani Currency, the things were OK till 2018 when I invested heavily in prism after First devaluation of Nawaz Govt, at that time prices were 25% lesser than 2015 peak in Prism, In spite of having good purchases all my investments are 30% Low in terms of UAE Dirhams, In past 20 years my experience with Pak Currency was if it was devalued 10% it will stay so for another one year, it happened so even worst time Zaradari as well, In that time market would absorb impact of devaluation. This is first time we are seeing Pakistani Rupee going down and down again.
In last one year I have borne so much loss in terms of AED Currency that my 3 generations can be fed life long on that almost 50% shed on all holdings in Pakistan. Other who are holding will have same impact but my be unable to calculate, In Simple terms If I was Holding 3 Kanal Plots in DHA years Back, Today one of them is wiped out due to economic performance of Govt.
Point was to emphasize that Overseas Pakistani are main investors in real-estate and such a sheer weakness of Pakistani Currency will definitely a big -big factor for their long term investment decisions. To me It is far bigger factor than FBR rate or asset declaration.
Should it continue then Pak Currency will become worthless paper and all real-estate or high value Purchases will be done in Dollars and Rupee will be used just to buy Double Roti and Milk which will change rate every weak, Pakistan will Joint other Countries like Lebanon and Egypt etc. where property is valued in Dollars.
I am not sure what Current Govt is looking at but, From their Performance it is quite Clear that they have succeed to stop all types of business in Pakistan except Black Money exchanges.

Tariq ch replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 02:50 PM PST 

AoA
With due respect Dear Habib
These are overseas who made the life of common man of Pakistan difficult by illogical investments. More of them borrowed Bank Loan and invested in Pakistan.

I was owing and running a hotel in J.T Lahore. Its value was 2 million 20 Years back and monthly income was 40K only. It was difficult to meet my home expenditure.

I sold said 3 Marla commercial plot and someone purchased in 30 Million.

How can he draw 0.5 M from a business which was only running day to say expenditures 20 years back.

SUMMERY
Property prices are high as compared to their actual value. Illogical investments of overseas has destroyed business and has sucked last drop of blood of 70 % Pakistanies.

Tariq ch replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 02:54 PM PST 

Property business is over now for few years and U are expecting it's transactions in Dollars

Kh Qasim replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 03:12 PM PST 

Excellent article Habib Sb. You are 100% right. GDP of Pakistan was 305 Billion USD in 2017. Dollar was around 110 in 2017 and 160 now means more than 45% devaluation that shrinks GDP from 305 Billion to 210 Billion. GDP per capita of pakistan was USD 1547 in 2017 and we ranked 147 in the world around Bangladesh, Uzbekistan and Kenya. Now in 2019 after 45% devaluation GDP per capital falls from USD 1547 to USD 850. That will take us from 147 rank to 164 rank i.e. below Yemen and just above Ethiopia, Haiti and Rwanda. Now, I have started looking into the economy of Rwanda, Haiti and Ethiopia what people are doing there, how's real-estate market there and whats their source of earning. I will share the road-map with you all in near future. However, keep in mind that previously I used to think that it was due to 2 previous corrupt governments and their bad loans and this govt doing nothing wrong.? Now I realized it is due to the sheer incompetence of the current government and poor decisions that destroyed everything. They will take us to total collapse.

Consumer replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 03:12 PM PST 

What goes around, comes around
The overseas Pakistanis invested so much in property that the actual consumers can not buy property at such high rates. These investments actually deprived us from owning a house.
The housing sector should not projected as investment option. Those who invested should suffer and those want to buy and live should be accommodated. By the way Dollar is today at 162.

Habib replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 03:14 PM PST 

I could not understand your point, You mean you bought a Commercial plot in 2 Million 20 years back, and you would be more happy and country would be more prosperous if still its price would be 2,3 Million after 20 years, Nope it is not going to help Country neither people,
Main Focus of Overseas investments are World class Housing Societies in Sub Urban areas which is none of the business of Poor or middle class Pakistanis, These are the Parking lots of Money which is source of remittance and Jobs for Pakistan, I offered to one of my poor relative to live in a bungalow built in Izmir Town, He politely refused that neither he can come and go daily to work nor he can afford schools and tuition for his kids in these localities, Why don't you buy a small House in Gari Shahu and I will happily live there and Your investment will keep Going as well, If there will be no overseas investments there would be no Bahria of defense etc, There would be 10s of more Gari Shahu with Triple Story Houses,
These Housing areas we see are just Parking Lots of Money, Source of Remittance and some Jobs. In their absence overseas would be more interested in Investing in International Mutual Funds and offshore bank accounts form where they can wire the money anywhere and any time they need.

ABC replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:04 PM PST 

Now Start blaming overseas for Dollar at 162

Milo replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:05 PM PST 

Mashallah, this is the first time i have heard that OVERSEAS / REMITTANCES are Impacting negatively to the Country.
Just read the current Financial numbers / figures and surveys and imagine if those REMITTANCES would have been stopped.

Adnan Ali replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:13 PM PST 

100% agree with Habib and still worst is coming, because people are losing their jobs and income, And for survival they would not have any option except selling their land/investment at a throwaway price.

Consumer replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:47 PM PST 

Remittances should go into business developments, mutual funds and should not act as a tool to deprive the poor nation from housing facility by hoarding of plots for profits.

Anonymous replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 05:25 PM PST 

Mutual Funds Investment in Pak?
I invested 1 Million, 3 years back, and so far I suffered 0.3 Million Loss and rupee deprecation is separate :(

Khan88 replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 05:36 PM PST 

It was a well known fact, rupee was going to be depreciated against USD, in Nawaz government it was artificially over-valued.

I know overseas Pakistanis who realized this and took their gains while they could. Unfortunately real estate in a debt based economy (like ours) is prone to economic cycles i.e. property doesn't always go up. Timing is everything , just like everything else in life.

Rana A. replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 06:30 PM PST 

Salam o alaikum,
Habib bhai is write. But as he told that he had experience of 20/30 years then i dont understand why is he worried?
Everyone must know in business is name of profit and loss.
Now the prices are already stable esp.in dha. No more fall. Yes dollar is rising which giving loss to property value.
It's going to change as CMY explained InshaAlh.
Maximum 6 months, a very very big jump in teal rstate going to happen. Black money holders going to make white and again jump in business esp.real estate. Nawaz and Zardari are going to pay whiten 6 months InshaAllah.
Remember my words.
Who wants to buy , buy now. Make your black money, gold to white and just pay 4% to govt.
Believe me no country in the world having this kind of amnesty of 4% tax.
In europe is more than 50% with late intetests and fines if they give amnesty. Otherwise all blocked with jail and having biggest charges of money laundering, human smuggling, terrorism sponsering etc. Who will like all these allegations on neck.
And it's your land. Minimumly You also have to be playing and feeling Hero and Leader of your land.
Atleast we all going to answer our deed 8n dunya or in akhirah , sure 100% .

Please dont wait and jump in field and show yourself what you can.

Wa salam

Rana. A

Dani replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 07:01 PM PST 

and buy DHA Multan file in 63 Lakh from Rana Australia :)

Habib1 replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 10:35 PM PST 

People are being funny out here when they say in 6 months prices are going to rise? Bhai it’s already 5 folds high. From here it’s not upward trend it’s downward only. Prism which is underdeveloped and may take a decade or more to develop has whooping transfer charges . Who would buy such plots and wait a decade?.
When you talk about investment there are many other opportunities rather than buying property and see your hard earned money loses its value in terms of depreciation. 162 and still counting.

The developed areas like phase 5 and phase 6 have transfer charges that one can not even imagine to buy as an investment since return will take ages. From my perspective easy money is over, better sell properties ( if you could get buyers ) and do productive work. The fate of property is ominous for those who can see.

User_6006® replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 11:31 PM PST 

Corporates sucks soul from body , its selfish dirty mean sluggish harsh professional life with stress and mother of diseases.we need agric reforms and soft indutrialization , better societies ,better commercial , better export of agric and soft industry and our strong currency with better health facilites and good tax but better salaries.and peace.

Tahir USA replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 03:29 AM PST 

Habib's analysis is absolutely correct. I'm an overseas for over 25 years practicing corporate laws. Here some gentlemen are simply ignoring the global realities and mechanism of economies. Just wishful thinking will not bring anything 'good' except more miseries if you are not smart and intelligent to act in time. This is what current government has done though I myself voted for it. Its a sheer incompetence and chaos; only useless speeches in the Parliament; and no meaningful legislation at all. Lately in our local Masjid many professionals and highly educated Pakistanis are talking the same as described by Habib, and do not want to remit their earnings anymore back to the country. Good luck.

Thelma replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:05 PM PST 

It is because of people expecting 3 times gain in their investments while sitting home doing nothing ,that Pakistan is In this economic crisis ...Why don't these oversearers invest in U.K. UAE,USA,....because their money will not multiply as fast ,...They only love Pakistan because their money will multiply at a phenomenal rate ,without them lifting a finger .something they can never dream of doing anywhere else in the world ....And they do us ehsan by calling it remittances ....If Pakistan stands on its feet ,which it will inshallah, we will not need yr remittances .....We will have our people investing in industries ,and not in pieces of land ,to get returns that will not only create jobs but we will be exporting to get the dollars that you were giving us as bheek in the name of remittances ...Inshallah Pakistan will stand up and fight all the free loaders ,free sleepers on our land ,Mufut khooras who were destroying our economy and yet making millions ....We will not need your money anymore ..God willing ...

Thelma replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:12 PM PST 

He starts his article with " long term investor in property " "not long term investor in industry ."
So u were an investor looking for returns without lifting a finger ...that you proudly say increased many folds when the crooks were ruling the country ...so u were so happy with yr smart investment and happy u were doing A favour to Pakistan...Now that we have an honest head ,you r suffering ...good ..I'm so happy u will never invest in our property for yr gains ever again ....we don't need you ...

Rana A. replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:29 PM PST 

Salam again to all,
@ Habib & Tahir, brothers i am also overseas since last 25 years and doing just business. But believe me what i found how easy is in Pak to multiply money, there is no where.
Yes, you are right , you have to be not only honest but also intelligent and hard working.

@Thelma, well answered and appreciate to have love for your land. You are right, there is no country in world which could multiply investment of some one while sleeping.
But Thelma, please dont take every overseas with same way. There are a lot who loves and their hearts beat with Pak. They feal pain when Pak not flourish. If today just will be stability in economic, you would see a lot overseas would come back with their earnings.

Arif replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:44 PM PST 

Don’t forget our economy heavily relies on remittances. If oversees Pakistanis stop transfer their savings to Pakistan the situation will get worst. Though government admits importance of remittances but they have no sense and vision to foresee the negative impact of its current measures on remittances.

Thelma replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 05:19 PM PST 

Rana sahib thanku...Arif sahib the hard working honest overseasers who love Pakistan and r not sending money to milk Pakistan but to help Their loved ones who happen to be Pakistani s..they r the silent builders of this nation ,who do not even know how their remittances r helping ..They will keep sending to their loved ones to invest whether in real estate or Business or just to support ....Theyr the real hero s and rest assured Habib sahib,thisepeople will keep sending ...because they r not sending it fir their selfish ends. They r sending money to their loved ones ,which in the end. Happens to be our dear Pakistan...long live Pakistan
The more people who were making millions CRY ,the more iim convinced that something is going Right for this country ...may yr millions go into the drains and may Pakistan make millions without yr brilliance..
Rest assured Pakistan is trying to stand on its feet. It may falter and u may clap in glee waiting for it to fall but the honest hardworking REAL Pakistani will hold its hand and make it not walk but RUN...

Consumer replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 05:48 PM PST 

Remittances going into property just give a temporary boost but are bad for growth and economy of the country in the long run. Should Govt allow the property to remain tax free zone and undocumented, so expats can enjoy doubling their money.
Property market must come back from speculations to real value

User_6006® replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 06:11 PM PST 

Govts need to understand property has its own three cycles and lomgest is slump so hovt should not aid by policies to keep it stagnant

We still need to make property 20 time more costly as our neigborhood cities Delhi,Mumbai,Dhaka ,chitahong ,kabul,tehran are.
To control population in major cities and to uplift small cities towns and agriculture.
People are bullshitting here.

Kh Qasim replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 06:33 PM PST 

The trade deficit numbers for October 2018 have been released by state bank.
Imports = 4.8 billion in Oct 2018
Imports = 4.8 billion in Oct 2017
No reduction in imports after 30% devaluation and extra duties.
Our problem is excessive and useless imports which is using up all the dollars. Exports cannot be doubled in months so that is not a solution for the immediate crises. This crises is not due to loans but due to imports of 60 billion per year.

Even if we get 12 billion from IMF and some help from China, we will use it all up by June 2019. What happens after that ? If these imports are not stopped, there are only two possibilities (mathematically) by June 2019.
1. We default and declare bankruptcy or
2. Dollar hits 200 to a Rupee so imports are automatically curtailed but we go into hyper inflation like Turkey and Iran

Kh Qasim replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 06:34 PM PST 

what are the useless imports that we are currently doing?
Many. There are two kinds. 1 things that we make but still import 2. Things we dont make but are useless. For e.g in the first category are things like Fans, exhaust fans, coolers, clothes, shoes, fruit, toys, motors, pumps, bathroom tiles, floor tiles, sanitary fittings, sinks, flushes, switches, etc. The second category are imports like fancy toys, sweets and chocolates, high end mobiles, LED TVs, perfumes, garments, bakery items, land cruisers, Prados, rugs, fancy furniture. Even simple toffees are being imported from China.

Ahsan Sattar replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 08:46 PM PST 

There is one thing called "Real Effective Exchange Rate" REER. The REER of Pakistan was around 125 in 2017 when Pakistan was asked to bring REER closer to 100 for any negotiations with IMF. Pakistan since then started devaluation.
Currently (at 162) the REER of Pakistani rupee is 103. This is fairly close to 100.
The problem with our currency is as soon the government brings REER close to 100 mark it starts rising again, because of number of factors including the trade deficit.
It will be keep depreciating but at lower rate till end of this year probably. After that global recession to follow.
Best of luck!
(At 100 it is considered that the currency is neither overvalued or undervalued. Above 100 is artificially over valued currency and below 100 is undervalued currency).

About imports:
In terms of luxury items called as "unnecessary" imports in this thread, these items contribute to some extent to the import bill. When we people talk about imports we normally come up with "luxury cars" as the most unnecessary import yet total vehical import is 4% including all.
Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)
Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)
Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)
Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%)
Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%)
Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%)
Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)
Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)

Our problem is we don't produce what the world demands.

PS: By the way we consume 15 liters of oil per capita. While world's average is 3 liter's. If we start consuming "NORMAL" we can save at least $2.1 billion of import and can even export edible oil :).

Adnan Ali replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 08:59 PM PST 

Main reason for current crisis is Dollar speculation, our dear STATE BANK has decided not to interfere in dollar price. so As soon as USD reaches 140, brokers start saying it will got 160, and now it touches 164, brokers say it will go 180, so people who carry USD in their home, do not encash, same way an exporter are not bringing their money in Pakistan but waiting to usd reach its Peak value, same way this speculation caused people to convert their pkr savings into usd which makes usd shortage in market.

There is not much trade deficit difference in recent months as compared to 2017, 2018. every thing could be normal if STATE BANK does it role by controlling brokers/speculators and say clearly that it will do every thing to make pak rupee value stable.

For God Sake, please do not discourage investors, no matter PTI or not, this country belongs to every one.

Current govt has spent 1 year and same way next 4 years will also pass. Next time some other party will be in power.
Do not be a blind supporter of your political party and if they are doing some thing wrong, accept it instead of trolling so it could be corrected.

Ahsan Sattar replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 09:20 PM PST 

@Adnan
There is one exchange rate called "interbank rate" and one rate called "open market" rate. The trade in money exchanges daily is worth around 10 million dollars (open market). While in the interbank (State Bank and commercial banks) its around 100 million dollars.
Who can influence the rate? Money exchanges?

Rana A. replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 09:32 PM PST 

Salam to all,
It's a long time to read really intellectual discussion.
In my view we all having moral duties on each stage on each level whether we are in land or out of land.
Also no doubt, the overseas pakistani were and are sending and sending money to their relatives or for themselves but our leaders + bureaucrates took it back to west.
As to pray namaz, first of all we should have wadoo but unfortunately in whole muslima umah incl. Pak we are liars, cheaters, selfish and lazy. We don't like to work but we want to be richest in overnight while sleeping.
Nrw govt is speaking about Madinah but still i did not undetstand, " why did they not implement the laws of Madinah Walay kay".
E.g; In Islam tax is named Zakat. It is 2.5%.
Its also true our leader is honest but he has to make his left and right hands also honest, intelligent, hard working and inventors, not "Lakeer day Fakeer".
If some obe tells me we are stupid nation, i would not believe. But govt has to find out honest and appropriate brains. They can ask whole nation, " please write down your suggestions how to come out the economic and moral crises without age, sex or region distinction". And govt.has to select best hundreds or best 10 and ultimately best 1.
No doubt, when you try to catch a thief that would show reaction in all possible ways even to kill you for ones escape. So this happened and happening. But captain also has not to let his boat sink while fighting.
Inland paki's or outland paki's also have not to start collecting dollars and even dieing with fear of loss in other investments. They have to think one minute, we are brown and we would stay brown outsiders on western world whether we are having western nationalities. We are called there, browny or blacky. Is it true or not?
Govt.also should not make scary to businessmen or investors. It is human nature, each one wants profit not loss.
In my suggestion, govt. should give them guarantee of security in all the ways and convince them to pay most least tax in the world. Believe me, whole business world would run to Pak.
I hope this amnesty would help Pak, InshaAlh.

Crying people always cry whether is spring or autumn, winter or summer. Is it right or not?

World steping forward so we should also step forward with passion, devotion and hardwork.

Wa salam,
An overseas

Kh Qasim replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 10:30 PM PST 

Myth is that Pakistani's don't pay taxes Reality is that Pakistan is one the most heavily taxed country. Last year FBR budget revenues of 4398 billion from direct and mostly indirect taxes. If we divide 4398 billion by 10 crore adult Pakistanis, then each Pakistani will pay Rs 52,776 tax (mostly indirect) this year. Now average income of a Pakistani is Rs 12000 per month according to Government figures. That means that each Pakistani making Rs 12000 per month has to pay Rs 4398 in tax each month. This is almost 37% tax. This also makes Pakistan the most heavily taxed country in the world, and the sad part is that burden is mostly on poor and middle class Pakistanis. This year the tax revenue collection is estimated at 5500 billion. You can not extract more tax from these people. Yes the tax can shift from poor and middle class to rich one's with correct policies. But the fact our income is not much (that is the issue). We need to increase our income. If we want to collect more than we need to create wealth. Yes wealth can be created. That is the only solution.
Good planning is based on correct assumptions. If the assumptions are based not on hard facts and truths, but on wishes, the plan fails badly no matter how good the intentions. A classic case is this year's FBR target of Rs 5500 billion tax collection. This is based on 4% GDP growth rate, 10% inflation and around 20% growth in tax collection. All three assumptions are not based on any facts, trends, historical data, FBR capability and incentives but on wishful thinking. Needless to say FBR will fail to collect these taxes by next year, will cause further demoralization of its staff and will face even more criticism in the media. This is called "setting up to fail". FBR has set itself up to fail. The entire budget is based on the assumption that FBR will collect 5.5 trillion in taxes, and hence the entire budget will fail to meet its targets, and most developmental expenses would be halted in the middle of the year as revenues wont be as much as planned. This cycle would continue and we ll find ourselves in an even more miserable situation a year from now. Why cant the assumptions be made more realistic or even conservative like 2% growth rate, and if the growth is more FBR will exceed its target making life better for everyone. But this wont happen because we as nation dont want to face facts but want to feel good for now and not worry about tomorrow.

Tahir USA replied on Sunday, June 30, 2019 05:51 AM PST 

@Thelma, your love for my Pakistan is highly appreciated, but we should come out of suc delusional mind set of mere wishful dreams? Kh Qasim has made his point very convincing being logical with facts & figures, and some corrective measures as well. Rightly stated that this is "setting up to fail". Being honest is a good personal trait but is of no significance when one is incompetent to deliver and impotent to act in time to manage the mess. They could have managed it much better but have planned to fail. Current leadership knew for over 20 years that our country has been plundered massively by previous rulers. People voted for better change in their lives, instead got more hard time. What a change! Good luck.
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(721)
Thursday, May 24, 2018 06:53 PM PST 
DHA Defence Lahore Phase 9 Prism Plots For Sale

DHA Phase 9 Prism One Kanal Plot For Sale May 24th, 2018
LRE Offers

DHA Phase 9 Prism Near H 93 @ 130 Lacs. 120 Feet Road, 9 Paid Civil
DHA Phase 9 Prism Near H 939 @ 112 Lacs.Near Park, Good Bargain, 10 Paid Civil
DHA Phase 9 Prism Near H 579 @ 105 Lacs.Near Park, Good Bargain, 10 Paid Civil
DHA Phase 9 Prism Near B 376 @ 132 Lacs. 150 Feet Road, 10 Paid Civil
DHA Phase 9 Prism Near A 839 @ 135 Lacs. Prime Location, Army Update
DHA Phase 9 Prism Near A F 325 @ 106 Lacs. Good Bargain, Army Update
DHA Phase 9 Prism Near E 473@ 112 Lacs , Nearby commercial market ,10 Paid Civil
DHA Phase 9 Prism Near K 640@ 108 Lacs , Back Of 150 feet, Prime Location ,10 Paid Civil

:forsale: :forsale:

To Buy and Sell In Prism Contact

Muhammad Salman Maqsood
03004009967
03224009967
Lahore Real Estate

Chaudhry Mushtaq replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 12:51 AM PST 

Any stats on how many transfers per day are happening in DHA these days and in what phases?

contagion replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 03:21 AM PST 

I remember someone ( maybe it was CMY) on this forum mentioned 2.5 years back " Prism instalments khanda jaye gaa"

Tahir replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 06:57 AM PST 

Aoa CMY sb is a good promotor of Prism
It was Jameel Mughal

Tahir replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 06:59 AM PST 

All were cursing him at that time. Now I want to ask where is Fast Track Development within three years Promise of DHA??????

Khan88 replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 08:06 AM PST 

Prism development will take from anywhere 5 to 8 years more.

Some blocks might be handed over after 3 years.

Contagion replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 08:36 PM PST 

Average H block plot was for 68 lakh in July 2015. If average now is 105 lakh and if one subtracts paid installments and 18% rupee devaluation vs dollar, the price is still 68 lakh today.

Khan88 replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 11:06 PM PST 

@ Contagion

It seems there will be a dip in Prism price soon. Lets see how it plays in the market

Saleem replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 11:47 PM PST 

Yes even i and habib also sais that dha always make a false promise. But there were people like surfer who have just like 3 to 4 years real estate or dha experience start bashing. I am looking for a comment by surfer back in 2016 where he said that by 2018 all priam top locations will be 200+ mark my words. Even today with 10 paid you can buy excellent location in top blocks in 135 to 140.You should be supportive to some phase but dont become so emotionally in loved with it k ap inflation property cycles and gov tax ko ignore kar do. This is what dha have been doing from past 12 to 15 years. Prism is a largest phase in dha. i visited prism in march through dha town i would say that A,P,C and D will be handed over after 2 years and the remaing after 4 years. So it almost makes that it was to handed over in 5 years combining dev started in feb 2016.

Saleem replied on Friday, May 25, 2018 11:59 PM PST 

I will always that time of entry and leaving is the most important factor in dha.
Prism would never have been short time investment even now. If you want short term investment go for phase 7 or phase 8 but if you want to go for a long term than go for prism. But we have to see that what measure gov take on real estate as they are very prepared to impose taxes on property like they knew that whole money is in real estate market. If non filer is not going to buy more than 5 million property i would say that there might be more correction in market as few people wants to become filer as fbr sends you notice regarding the source of money and believe me it is the moat irritating things you will ever have to face. Secondly is the property cycle 2014 to 2016 prices increased alot and according to cycle it was to face some correction and was about to come out of it by end of 2018 or early 2019 but seems gov measures have prolonged it.

Asif replied on Sunday, May 27, 2018 01:19 AM PST 

Just a thought, Can we see a price drop like 70-75 lakhs property to 50 lakhs (specially files and non developed) after 30 June 2018.

Khan88 replied on Wednesday, May 30, 2018 03:48 PM PST 

@Asif

I would expect there to be a 15% to 20% chance of such a correction but only in Phase 9 and Phase 10 files. If the new government is not PML N or a coalition with PML N, expect the chance of such a correction to increase to 40% to 50% but again only in Phase 9/10 files.

Its all about investors taking money out and selling files in bulk which they can if outlook looks negative.

RelaPicture replied on Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:07 PM PST 

In my humble opinion investing in DHA was not a wise decision back in 2012 and 2013 as i did. People invested like my colleagues with the same amounts at that time in canal road and ferozpur socities like Izmir, Pakarab and Jubilee town etc. have earned a lot more profit and without any burden of so called Development charges. Also they have on-ground clear plots and we are still paying to DHA and throwing the money in the wells... with the hope of getting plot in near future which is not possible upto next 8 years for sure in Prism.
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(720)
Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:28 PM PST 

Price in DHA 9 Town expected to go down in next few months or not?

And please evaluate DHA 9 Town Block A 2051 5 marla

Khan88 replied on Thursday, May 10, 2018 01:58 AM PST 

Apologies to pitch in. It is quite obvious DHA9 will have to adjust as investors stop parking illegal money in but it would take 6 months or so for the decline to come considering the vested interest of everyone and shear size of the phase. The only thing certain is there will be no increase in prices for the next two years or so.

Qureshi replied on Thursday, May 10, 2018 03:29 AM PST 

Dear Farhan Bahi: In my opinion you can not expect any price revision in Dha 9 Town prices as of today. However, you will see further gradual gain in next 1.5 years. Construction activity is at its boom.

Izzy replied on Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:44 PM PST 

Well in my opinion 9 Town is a 5 marla society 85%. Rest is 8 marla and 10 marla. Remember 5 marla is entry level plot size in DHA and only in 9 Town you can get 5 marla plot on good location otherwise mostly 5 marla plots are on boundary. Pls also remember prices decline where there is no construction activity. There is a massive construction activity going in 9 Town which means prices can slow down or stop increasing for a time being until election happen. Rest assure prices will not come down any way in 9 Town. There is lot of activity going in 9 Prism and 9 Town will serve as a gateway to it. If you are thinking of buying plot do so or you might miss the train. Good plots on good location asking is around 78 to 80 lacs but you can get a plot around 72 to 75 lacs on Good location. Also remember 9 Town is only dha project where buying & selling is happening all rest dha is dead. 1 kanal and 2 kanal houses and plots business completely dead. On average daily dha transfers are 40 in number out of which 65% is 9 Town.

Khan replied on Saturday, May 12, 2018 06:50 PM PST 

In my humble opinion, invesing in DHA is not a gud idea .I invested alot in DHA prism and town in 2012 and 13. However my colleagues investments at same time in Izmir , jubilee town, nespak and other socities turned out to be lot more fruitfull as compared to DHA. Today I am atill paying dev charges with no on ground plots. If I had invested in other societies like nespak, izmir and other could have given me double profit and posession plots and free of dev charges burden.
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(719)
Tuesday, November 21, 2017 04:45 PM PST 
shop for sale

i want to sell my shop in jinnah mall izmir town lhr.
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(718)
Sunday, September 11, 2016 07:38 AM PST 

Dear Jameel Mughal sb,
I am waiting for your call to buy a plot for investment as I requested you earlier to guide me since I do not have experience in property but after reading so many posts on this forum I feel that you always give honest advice.
I have a budget around 10 Million and want to have good return for a long term investment upto 3-5 years. I have learned from this forum to either invest in Prism or buy 2 files in DHA Multan.
Kindly advise me whether the right time has come or should i wait more? second where should i invest? if you too think that I should buy in Prism then suggest size of Plot (1 kanal or 10 or 5 marla) and if possible location?
I will always be indebted to you for the worthy advice.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 04:54 PM PST 

If you tell me your requirements then I may be able to give you Good advice, By requirement I mean You want to make home If Yes in How many years, are you looking for only investment If yes how long,

For Short term Like less than 2 years investment, Most of market will not give significant gains [except few areas] , If You invest for long term then keep in mind that you may have to pass the period of Slump say 2 years then a rally may come hence return will be diluted.

In previous 3 cycles of boom and slump i learned two thing in Slump ready property in underpriced areas give modest returns and properties in pipeline reverse, and In Boom investor tend based futuristic properties give enormous returns and ready properties stand.

For Long term I will again buy Prism 5 merla my Formula is Kanal plots Price should be 2.25 times 5 merla plot not 4 times, This is true every where in developed areas, if You stick to this equation average plot of 5 merla @ 35 3 paid is Cheaper than average one kanal, so either 5 merla is underpriced or Kanal is still overpriced, why I am not buying myself is I think 5M will reverse a bit more [which may or may not happen]

Observer replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 06:19 PM PST 

newbie sb. according to mr. jameel 2.25 times of 35 lac makes 78 lac approx. i challenge you to find one kanal in prism in 78.
market does not work according to someone's personal calculations. bhai research yourself and then act. if you will follow others calculation, WON'T GET ANYTHING

Jameel Mughal® replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 07:21 PM PST 

Observer these personal Calculations hold true in all areas except prism DHA Phase 5,6,7,8 Valecia, Izmir Johar Town wapda town etc
Reason is simple more Covered area is allowed in 5 merla map than kanal or more buyers in low budget. In raw Land if You can make 100 kanal Plots in a patch then you can make only 250 in 5 merla if Roads are of same width.

Prisim replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 07:38 PM PST 

Worse plots of 5 Marla in Prisim are around 35 (3 paid) and similarly you can find worse plot of 1 kanal around 78 (3 paid)

newbie investor replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 08:27 PM PST 

thanks for reply, my aims are
1. Around 10 Million investment
2. Purely investment reason, no plan to live
3. Long term at least 5 years
please advise

Habib replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 08:46 PM PST 

Newbie,

wait a bit more and invest in prism small plots sectors Like 5 Marla, in 36,37 Now You can get an average location, and in 40 you can get top of range location, I was Looking for A plot in J Block near 777, 3 months back demand was 45 and I offered 42 But in vain, now 3 lines more up was available in 40, I just Called yesterday. 5 Lac Cooling is too much, To me there can't be any better location in J Block. I will advise you should go for 2 such plots.
Other Option can be buying 2 Plots in DHA Town 5 Marla each in about 55 Lac, 5 Marla plot give you much more return and can be sold like candies.

The Observation of 5 Marla price to be about 40 to 50% of Kanal is Correct, in good Locations at maturity two 5 Marla plots can easily be converted to 1 Kanal at same Location. Two 5 M in B Lock phase 5 are 200 to 220 and you can easily hunt one kanal in same Block in 220, In phase 7, 5 Marla with possession is not less than 60 and in same Blocks similar locations kanal is 120 to 130

Message is go for small plots easy sell, less tax less headache and on possession are readily populated.
Multan is also good but with few buts and ifs

Kureshi® replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 09:09 PM PST 

Jameel sb and Habib sb, thank you for these enlightening comments. It is very generous of you to share such business secrets with us for free. U are rare species like CMY :)

may Allah bless you with Iman, health and wealth.

Surfer® replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 09:28 PM PST 

Seems like placing maximum price for 5 marla & Minimum price for 1 Kanal.
According to me 3, 5 marla's may be equal to One kanal good location of the same phase in DHA.
Yes the positive point of above discussion is bit hastel free to some extant. On the other hand you are loosing one major factor that is Time.
Time can change your priorties & Choices.

HassanHC® replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 10:09 PM PST 

Jameel Saab and Habib Saab

Wapda town 5 Marla 60 lacs so 60 lacs times 2.2= 134 lacs. Avg Kanal plot 2 crore and good blocks 2.5 crore

DHA RAHBAR second example avg 5 Marla 50 lacs so 50 times 2 = 100 lacs. Avg kanal is 160 lacs.

DHA TOWN avg 5 Marla 55 lacs and 55 times 2 = 110 lacs. That is over there avg price of 10 Marla i.e around 100 lacs

It means this formula does not hold true everywhere. PHASE 8 this formula also gets busted.

Habib Saab in this slump you are also hunting in prism. Good sign for PRISM.

Habib replied on Sunday, September 11, 2016 11:22 PM PST 

Hassan sahib all rules don't hold true every where
Wapda Town Phase 1 G2,3,4 all average Plots 70 all very near nallah same Location Kanal in 150 F1,H1,H2,H3,H4, and Bit away in J1J2J3 170 70X2.25= 157

you are Comparing DHA Rahber Phase 1 Kanal with DHA Rahber phase 2, 5 Marla In Phase 2 no Kanals Phase 1 is infront of Valencia and Phase 2 is infront of IEP

DHA Town Kanal is 115,118,130,108 Today advertised , Don't Buy 10 M in 100,
Prism 5 Marla On J side have Potential and Currently under Pressure due to small investors that true if I get Good Location in Upper Cutting 37,38 I will get. As these will short in supply.

irfan292 replied on Monday, September 12, 2016 01:01 AM PST 

I wonder if anyone here considers the fact that too many investors in 5 marla plots tend to increase the prices of 5 marla plots too much and real occupiers of these plots who build houses to live here are relatively lower middle class "sufaid posh" people who suffer at the hands of the investor.
If ethics plays any role, rich investors should avoid investing in 5 marla and 10 marla plots.

User_6006® replied on Monday, September 12, 2016 02:00 AM PST 

Habib sb sorry to say you are not updated anymore with wapda town , iep seca and valencia prices , hassan hc is right about wapda town prices latest is h sector near nallh where in 2012 kanal was under 50 now touched 110 plus , e1 kanal hit 220 j1,k1 average plot 180 plus and sorry to say j2,j3 always meant for smaller plots if there are kanal in very low in no, main d2 etc near 3.5 crore and still it increasing ave

newbie investor replied on Monday, September 12, 2016 11:57 AM PST 

Thank you very much for your feedback specially Habib sb, Hassan sb, surfer and jameel sb; for such a nice and thorough feedback. I am really grateful to all of you for such enlightening and sincere comments. Wish u all a healthy and happy life and EID MUBARAK.
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(717)
Saturday, August 20, 2016 04:08 AM PST 
Reply to Ahmad Hassan Sb - Audit and Accounts Phase 2

Ahmad Hassan Sb,

The land completely owned by the Society. LDA did not approve the Society so far because Lahore Ring Road was passing through it and a number of plots were falling under the Ring Road.

Now when the demarcation of Ring Road has been finalized, the approval from LDA will soon be issued.

Moreover, only Sector A of Bahria Town, Lahore and Bahria Orchard(Safari Town) are approve by LDA, and all the other (several) Sectors/Schemes of Bahria Town, Lahore are not approved.

But you are ONLY trying to defame Audit & Accounts Phase 2 on this ground… why??… it seems that you have some other hidden reason… do you?

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 05:45 PM PST 

Dear Amjad Bahi, I have zero investment in Bahria due to that reason. Residents of Bahria who are effected from ring road route will get DC value as of agricultural rates or they will be on Bahria management discretion. I am not going to get any benefit or lose anything if one buy or don't buy plot in A&A. But صراط مستقیم ہی صیح راستہ ہے۔ Being a good citizen we also have some responsibilities. We should force societies to get approval. Just look at the post above, one of victim from Nishemen Iqbal. My own brother build a house in Izmeer Town. Roads has been broken & Izmeer management is not going to remake all house will be constructed. That means either people ve to build with own efforts or wait for next 50 years. Without approval means LDA has no record of your property. You canot claim anything from anyone.

Hadi replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 06:03 PM PST 

Mr Ahmed hassan if u r in touch of ur brother who has house in izmir then u should not have given reference of this society regarding broken road in it. All roads have been really built. No broken road can u been seen in the society. U can check it by visiting ur brother'so home any time

Hadi replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 06:18 PM PST 

Am jade sahib bahria A , B and Co r approved by LDA rest E, F etc r not approved.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 06:24 PM PST 

I visited Pakistan last time in June 2016. Till that time no. But I will recheck specially today.

SMR Hakim replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 06:48 PM PST 

Mr.Ahmad Hassan. It will be very kind of you if you have offered comments after visiting IZMEER TOWN. Izmeer Town is one of the best residential society at a prime location.The management looks after affairs of society properly.The residents are living peacefully. Kindly visit the society and then offer your esteemed comments.

Jahan Durrani replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 06:51 PM PST 

Mr.Ahmad Hassan. It will be very kind of you if you have offered comments after visiting IZMEER TOWN. Izmeer Town is one of the best residential society at a prime location.The management looks after affairs of society properly.The residents are living peacefully. Kindly visit the society and then offer your esteemed comments.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 07:05 PM PST 

Till my last visit June 2016, roads were required repair work or needs to remake. And this was pending since many years. Yes main roads are ok but I am talking about streets.

Adnan_Ali® replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 08:19 PM PST 

Bokhari Sb, Hats off to your Logic ;)

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 08:23 PM PST 

Dear Tahir, how one thing could be best for investment & not good for living. Shouldn't be good for both, isn't it.

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Saturday, August 20, 2016 08:42 PM PST 

Ahmad Hassan Sb,

We are living in present, not future.

Audit and Accounts is good for investment right now, like some of my friends here may think that DHA Phase-9 is good for investment at the moment.

I am talking about investment for the next one year, and I am sure nobody who is looking for one year investment in DHA Phase-9, Prism can also expects that I will become livable by that time.


So neither Audit & Accounts Phase 2 nor DHA Phase-9 can be good for living after one year, but both can be good for one year investment.

I hope that you understand this difference!

Falak replied on Sunday, August 21, 2016 01:21 AM PST 

Ahmed Hassan bhai 70℅ Road in Izmir had been remade till January 2016. Rest 30℅ were made till April 2016 as I am residence of Izmir. If u visited in June 2016 then no way there was any road which needed to be repaired. Plz recall your memory may be you visited Izmir town in June 2015 instead of June 2016.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Sunday, August 21, 2016 02:13 AM PST 

My last & final comment on this discussion. سستا روئے بار بار مہنگا روئے ایک بار .

AliAwan® replied on Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:53 PM PST 

Double ownership: Back in early 2000's management cancelled plots for defaulters. They were reallocated but the defaulters went to court and court ordered to give the plots back. That created double ownership and as per my knowledge that problem has been solved and people have been given alternative plots.

BABUR replied on Monday, August 22, 2016 02:01 AM PST 

thank u ali bhai u accepted some facts, however, the notice is displayed on society office that possession for D Block is not available till mortgage will not be cleared by LDA

AliAwan® replied on Monday, August 22, 2016 02:10 AM PST 

I will check this Babur as i have investment in Phase 2 so not much of knowledge about this but will surely check this if you say so.
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(715)
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 02:14 PM PST 
Need Invesment advice

Salam,

I need suggestions to invest aprox. 6 Million hard money for my two daughters study and their future perspective for 2 years . I prefer to look societies on Raiwind road on ground plots so kindly advice me the following options and also let me know which block will be the ideal option for best returns in the given budget. Currently what I foresee is for Sui Gas Phase 2 please advice.

LDA Avenue Phase1, 10 Marla
Sui Gas Phase 2, 1 Kanal
Fazaaia Phase 1, 10 Marla

I got the offer to buy in LDA Avenue 1- Block J Plot 1122 Please evaluate and advice.

Sir if possible please send me the person or mobile contact number from where we can get advice in detail for further queries.

I am looking for your urgent response please.

Thank you,

ZS replied on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 05:12 PM PST 

bro Invest in 10 Marla plot located in J block LDA AVENUE ur amount will increse upto 30% in next 6-8 months Rest ALLAH knows the Best if u want to invest 4 million den go for suigas but it will give u slow return as compared to LDA AVENUE forget fazaia coz rates r already gone up its for living purpose not for investors just like IZMIR

Nouman replied on Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:32 AM PST 

Suigas and LDA avenue are better. But you should not limit yourself to raiwaind road societies. Look for any option that can give good return in 2years. DHA Multan can also see a good jump with balloting (expected this year).

faisalp replied on Thursday, April 28, 2016 08:02 PM PST 

Thanks ZS and Nouman bro for your kind suggestion. May Allah blessed both of you

Mirza replied on Saturday, April 30, 2016 10:17 PM PST 

Go for sg bhse awt2

Mirza replied on Saturday, April 30, 2016 10:17 PM PST 

Go for sg bhse awt2
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(714)
Monday, March 14, 2016 03:40 PM PST 

AOA
Dear Experts
Would you pls tell me which one is better option for good earining. I have 8m.

1- Buy a plot any where in Lahore and wait for 3 to 4 years for good return.
2 - Buy a 5 marla plot and construct a house on it and then sell it .

Pls tell me after 4 years , earning wise , which one is better?

Thank you

Noman Ahmed replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 03:52 PM PST 

Dear Chaudhry Sb,

Construct a house and sell is better option. You will earn for your hard work also as well as enhanced plot price. Choose a location where demand of houses is high or houses are already constructed.

ABC replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 04:26 PM PST 

Dear Asif!

Please also add rental income. If we consider 10 months time for construction then rent = 38*35000=13.30 lacs + 104 = 107.3

Pakistan® replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 04:28 PM PST 

@Asif,
your results differ because for option 1, you invested 8M in land... and in option 2, you only invested 4M in land.

You also missed a big factor.....for option 2, if 5 marla house is constructed in 6 months and rented immediately on 40K per month.... then after 3.5 years.... you would have earned around 17,00,000 PKR as rent.

your total return would reach = 104 lakh +17 lakh = 121 lakh

I only assumed a humble 40k rent for calculation

my verdict --> build house

Asif replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 05:12 PM PST 

Hello ABC and Pakistan,
Chaudhry sab didn't inform that he will rent the house, he said he will build and sale.
Incase of rental income, its true that the total return will increase.
i don't think out of DHA , 5 Marla house rent is 40K.
Lets assume 30K rental and annual increase in rent is 15%.
Considering 3 years, total earning from rent will be (30000*12 + 34500*12 + 35175*12 ) = 1196100 PKR and excluding an average of 30k maintenance charges every year the total gain from rent will be 11,0610 PKR. and total gain on House including rental will be around 115 lax.
In case of building in one year and renting for 03 years. The gain is higher than only buying a plt of 8mio.

Further to Pakistan's question : In option 01 i have considered only one plot in DHA of value 8 mio.
and in option 2 the plot value is half (4mio for 5 marla) and half (4mio) for construction.

Asif replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 06:15 PM PST 

Lets take guidance from Allah about both these options. If you look at the concept of Zakat, it is mainly applicable to those assets which are not in use by the society.

By building a house you will benefit society in following ways and yet getting your own profit

1-You will create job opportunity for the direct labor
2-You will create a circulation of wealth and many people will get their livelihood when you purchase materials
3-You will put a piece of land in use which was otherwise a dead asset for society
4-You will create a housing unit for society where a family will live

By buying a plot for re-sale

1-You will block a piece of land which will not benefit the society
2-You will make it more difficult for the people to buy land for home
3-You indirectly promote new housing schemes on agriculture land which will increase food cost for the society.



Regards

Noman Ahmed replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 07:17 PM PST 

Asif Sb,

Well said.

Iftikhar Ahmad replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 07:19 PM PST 

Dear Mr. Noman Ahmed & Mr. Asif.

Kindly guide me the best location or societies where there is high demand of houses in Lahore (for construction of 5 marla house for rental income.

Thanks & Regards,

Noman Ahmed replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 07:28 PM PST 

In this budget I would say paragon or Bahria.

Asif replied on Monday, March 14, 2016 07:42 PM PST 

barhria, valencica, joher town, UET, Izmir

Rashid Rafique replied on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:19 AM PST 

Buy plot in LDA Avenue-1
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(713)
Wednesday, March 9, 2016 12:25 PM PST 
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