Lahore Real Estate Forum

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Thursday, July 18, 2019 10:50 PM PST 
DHA Multan

What is happening with DHA Multan? The 1 kanal allocation file price dropped to 46.10 lac. Unfortunately the ballot is happening at the wrong time i.e. bad current economic situation. The project is too good and DHA has invested a lot in project as can be seen on the video shared by CMY. The project is worth investing for long-term holders.

Ali replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 12:15 AM PST 

Not only multan... Look around with open eyes
Ring-a-ring-a-rosies
A pocket full of posies
A tissue, a tissue
We all fall down…

Tariq ch replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 04:04 AM PST 

What be the future if Bahawalpur
It may fall @ 2 million

Tariq ch replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 04:05 AM PST 

What will be the future of

Ali replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 01:51 PM PST 

@Tariq ch
Maqbara :)
In major societies there the blood bath. What you expect from that dead zone?

Abdul Ghafoor replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 02:09 PM PST 

Societies ki choro, mulk ka kya ho ga??? already interest rate 13.25%. Who will invest in property when banks can give you that much increase on your money? mehngai. Unfortunately ye tabdeeli galay pur gahi hai.

User_6006 replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 02:47 PM PST 

These are lowest prices with rupee deprecation and inflation people are in loss but it will over soon.

Kh Qasim replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 03:30 PM PST 

@Abdul Ghafoor once we get rid of incompetent fools we will be back on track. This cycle will last for 2 or max 3 years. The cost of business will be viable and thing will start working again. The country has a lot of educated youth and the system needs to put them on work. If system don't then people will find their own way to sort things out as rightly said necessity is the mother of invention.

Consumer replied on Friday, July 19, 2019 03:30 PM PST 

Agree with all this. DHA Multan is a very good project. DHA expected too much out of this. 68 Lacs as cost of land on installments was too much and a blunder. It should have been not more than 55. Then timings are bad as well. I called a dealer around Eid and told him that I want kanal allocation file, I was ready to buy it at 48, however he started laughing at me and said don't expect any thing under 52 and agar late Kia Tu it will go to 64.
Bohat ziada hawa bherte ja rahe the aur ghubara phar dia
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Friday, July 12, 2019 07:29 PM PST 

Kanal DHA Multan installment file, will it go into negative soon

Consumer replied on Friday, July 12, 2019 07:35 PM PST 

DHA Multan which was expected by some pundits to rise with the ballot, has suffered from the budget and action against benami after an initial rise. The Kanal file started at 45 and jumped to 52 after eid. The property advisors wanted it to reach 63. Then after budget and benami act it started declining and now it's 47. The people who were lucky/unlucky to get plot on installments, will be real sufferers. The installment files generally end up in bad location as compared to army allotte. Will installment file be able to sustain the pressure. We can understand that DHA Multan must be making full effort to take kanal file to 68 so that the people paying on installments don't suffer

Kashif replied on Friday, July 12, 2019 08:28 PM PST 

I think with the ending of affidavit files, allocation price will enhance now. It should touch close to 60 near ballot

Sony replied on Friday, July 12, 2019 08:39 PM PST 

With the closure of affidavit files, allocations should show improvement especially close to ballot

Habib replied on Friday, July 12, 2019 09:47 PM PST 

Though some people love gambling type of games , but my question is will it stabilize at level of File Price plus 28 Lac development charges Plus Uncertainty fees, You may end up having Bad or Average Location and Odd are Low For Good Locations as good Locations are rare plus they are given to top Brass,
Looking at installments Plots loss my estimate is average Location plot will not fetch too much profit may be bit minus

Simple replied on Saturday, July 13, 2019 01:10 AM PST 

ملتان ڈی ایچ اے کو زیادہ تو وہ ڈیلرز پروموٹ کر رہے ہیں جنہوں نے اپنے کلائنٹس کو بہت فائلز اٹھوائ ہوئ ہیں اور اب ریٹ اوپر نہ جانے کی وجہ سے پریشان ہیں۔ اگر موجودہ مارکیٹ کو دیکھا جائے تو ملتان کے حالات بالکل اچھے نہی۔ ہیں کیونکہ ڈیولپمنٹ چارجز بہت زیادہ ہیں اور ڈی ایچ اے کی ساکھ بھی اچھی نہیں ہے بیلٹ کے حوالے اے، اچھی لوکیشن کے پلاٹس فوجی افسران کے نکلیں گے۔ اب کون گندی لوکیشن پہ پلاٹ بھی لے اور اتنے چارجز بھی ادا کرے۔ دوسرا ہر شہر میں تو ڈی ایچ اے نے ہراجیکٹ لانچ کر دیے ہیں اتنے انویسٹرز کہاں سے آئیں گے۔ ڈی ایچ اے نے اپنی ریپیوٹیشن کا خود ہی بیڑا غرق کیا ہے

Muneeb replied on Saturday, July 13, 2019 01:04 PM PST 

Its bcz bad managment by dha mutan. First they sufffered by their delayed balliting. Then extended many dates of affidevits submission. Nd lastly they made chawal to announce the ot date before budget.

Investor replied on Saturday, July 13, 2019 11:40 PM PST 

Dear friends:
Plz consider:
After ballot approx 25 to 28 lack will be an addition to file price. So kindly add these development charges today in file price and see will this file will be @ today price + development charges +transfer cost+ commission + non paid fine if any . After 3 years & take decision accordingly considering current economic & political circumstances in the country.

Aiqbal replied on Sunday, July 14, 2019 01:13 AM PST 

DHA Multan had already earned 9 billion PKR when launching the project in 2016. Real losers are investors. I am overseas pakistani n purchased 3 files @ 44 lacs, dollar was at 110.

Investor replied on Sunday, July 14, 2019 05:09 AM PST 

Agreed with Consumer
@Aiqbal
Agreed
The real winners are those who buy this file at launch in 2016 & sell after quick gains. Most of the overseas Investors are stucked because they cannot sell now on loss ( as dollar is now @ 162 approx). And now also have fear of bad location in ballot. So now it's better for those who want to buy now buy after ballot good location plot after ballot. Better buy after all installments of development charges are paid than enter seeing the current development. Today prism 9 all paid good location plots are at the same price as it is on 1 paid 3 years back. Just to reference.
By the way my post will be deleted soon.
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Wednesday, June 26, 2019 02:12 PM PST 
Long term Realestate Investment

with the relaxation of LRE policies I am starting writing again , I am non resident Pakistani

I am long-term property investor, and have invested in almost all reputed housing societies in Lahore. The Rule of thumb had been if you invest in slump you have almost no chance of losing at least in terms of Pakistani Rupees,
I started investing about 13 years back and had versatile experience of buying but not selling. Especially residential , The Investment which I Bough About 10 years back are about 5 to 6 times growth in Pakistani Currency, the things were OK till 2018 when I invested heavily in prism after First devaluation of Nawaz Govt, at that time prices were 25% lesser than 2015 peak in Prism, In spite of having good purchases all my investments are 30% Low in terms of UAE Dirhams, In past 20 years my experience with Pak Currency was if it was devalued 10% it will stay so for another one year, it happened so even worst time Zaradari as well, In that time market would absorb impact of devaluation. This is first time we are seeing Pakistani Rupee going down and down again.
In last one year I have borne so much loss in terms of AED Currency that my 3 generations can be fed life long on that almost 50% shed on all holdings in Pakistan. Other who are holding will have same impact but my be unable to calculate, In Simple terms If I was Holding 3 Kanal Plots in DHA years Back, Today one of them is wiped out due to economic performance of Govt.
Point was to emphasize that Overseas Pakistani are main investors in real-estate and such a sheer weakness of Pakistani Currency will definitely a big -big factor for their long term investment decisions. To me It is far bigger factor than FBR rate or asset declaration.
Should it continue then Pak Currency will become worthless paper and all real-estate or high value Purchases will be done in Dollars and Rupee will be used just to buy Double Roti and Milk which will change rate every weak, Pakistan will Joint other Countries like Lebanon and Egypt etc. where property is valued in Dollars.
I am not sure what Current Govt is looking at but, From their Performance it is quite Clear that they have succeed to stop all types of business in Pakistan except Black Money exchanges.

Tariq ch replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 02:50 PM PST 

AoA
With due respect Dear Habib
These are overseas who made the life of common man of Pakistan difficult by illogical investments. More of them borrowed Bank Loan and invested in Pakistan.

I was owing and running a hotel in J.T Lahore. Its value was 2 million 20 Years back and monthly income was 40K only. It was difficult to meet my home expenditure.

I sold said 3 Marla commercial plot and someone purchased in 30 Million.

How can he draw 0.5 M from a business which was only running day to say expenditures 20 years back.

SUMMERY
Property prices are high as compared to their actual value. Illogical investments of overseas has destroyed business and has sucked last drop of blood of 70 % Pakistanies.

Tariq ch replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 02:54 PM PST 

Property business is over now for few years and U are expecting it's transactions in Dollars

Kh Qasim replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 03:12 PM PST 

Excellent article Habib Sb. You are 100% right. GDP of Pakistan was 305 Billion USD in 2017. Dollar was around 110 in 2017 and 160 now means more than 45% devaluation that shrinks GDP from 305 Billion to 210 Billion. GDP per capita of pakistan was USD 1547 in 2017 and we ranked 147 in the world around Bangladesh, Uzbekistan and Kenya. Now in 2019 after 45% devaluation GDP per capital falls from USD 1547 to USD 850. That will take us from 147 rank to 164 rank i.e. below Yemen and just above Ethiopia, Haiti and Rwanda. Now, I have started looking into the economy of Rwanda, Haiti and Ethiopia what people are doing there, how's real-estate market there and whats their source of earning. I will share the road-map with you all in near future. However, keep in mind that previously I used to think that it was due to 2 previous corrupt governments and their bad loans and this govt doing nothing wrong.? Now I realized it is due to the sheer incompetence of the current government and poor decisions that destroyed everything. They will take us to total collapse.

Consumer replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 03:12 PM PST 

What goes around, comes around
The overseas Pakistanis invested so much in property that the actual consumers can not buy property at such high rates. These investments actually deprived us from owning a house.
The housing sector should not projected as investment option. Those who invested should suffer and those want to buy and live should be accommodated. By the way Dollar is today at 162.

Habib replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 03:14 PM PST 

I could not understand your point, You mean you bought a Commercial plot in 2 Million 20 years back, and you would be more happy and country would be more prosperous if still its price would be 2,3 Million after 20 years, Nope it is not going to help Country neither people,
Main Focus of Overseas investments are World class Housing Societies in Sub Urban areas which is none of the business of Poor or middle class Pakistanis, These are the Parking lots of Money which is source of remittance and Jobs for Pakistan, I offered to one of my poor relative to live in a bungalow built in Izmir Town, He politely refused that neither he can come and go daily to work nor he can afford schools and tuition for his kids in these localities, Why don't you buy a small House in Gari Shahu and I will happily live there and Your investment will keep Going as well, If there will be no overseas investments there would be no Bahria of defense etc, There would be 10s of more Gari Shahu with Triple Story Houses,
These Housing areas we see are just Parking Lots of Money, Source of Remittance and some Jobs. In their absence overseas would be more interested in Investing in International Mutual Funds and offshore bank accounts form where they can wire the money anywhere and any time they need.

ABC replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:04 PM PST 

Now Start blaming overseas for Dollar at 162

Milo replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:05 PM PST 

Mashallah, this is the first time i have heard that OVERSEAS / REMITTANCES are Impacting negatively to the Country.
Just read the current Financial numbers / figures and surveys and imagine if those REMITTANCES would have been stopped.

Adnan Ali replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:13 PM PST 

100% agree with Habib and still worst is coming, because people are losing their jobs and income, And for survival they would not have any option except selling their land/investment at a throwaway price.

Consumer replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 04:47 PM PST 

Remittances should go into business developments, mutual funds and should not act as a tool to deprive the poor nation from housing facility by hoarding of plots for profits.

Anonymous replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 05:25 PM PST 

Mutual Funds Investment in Pak?
I invested 1 Million, 3 years back, and so far I suffered 0.3 Million Loss and rupee deprecation is separate :(

Khan88 replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 05:36 PM PST 

It was a well known fact, rupee was going to be depreciated against USD, in Nawaz government it was artificially over-valued.

I know overseas Pakistanis who realized this and took their gains while they could. Unfortunately real estate in a debt based economy (like ours) is prone to economic cycles i.e. property doesn't always go up. Timing is everything , just like everything else in life.

Rana A. replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 06:30 PM PST 

Salam o alaikum,
Habib bhai is write. But as he told that he had experience of 20/30 years then i dont understand why is he worried?
Everyone must know in business is name of profit and loss.
Now the prices are already stable esp.in dha. No more fall. Yes dollar is rising which giving loss to property value.
It's going to change as CMY explained InshaAlh.
Maximum 6 months, a very very big jump in teal rstate going to happen. Black money holders going to make white and again jump in business esp.real estate. Nawaz and Zardari are going to pay whiten 6 months InshaAllah.
Remember my words.
Who wants to buy , buy now. Make your black money, gold to white and just pay 4% to govt.
Believe me no country in the world having this kind of amnesty of 4% tax.
In europe is more than 50% with late intetests and fines if they give amnesty. Otherwise all blocked with jail and having biggest charges of money laundering, human smuggling, terrorism sponsering etc. Who will like all these allegations on neck.
And it's your land. Minimumly You also have to be playing and feeling Hero and Leader of your land.
Atleast we all going to answer our deed 8n dunya or in akhirah , sure 100% .

Please dont wait and jump in field and show yourself what you can.

Wa salam

Rana. A

Dani replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 07:01 PM PST 

and buy DHA Multan file in 63 Lakh from Rana Australia :)

Habib1 replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 10:35 PM PST 

People are being funny out here when they say in 6 months prices are going to rise? Bhai it’s already 5 folds high. From here it’s not upward trend it’s downward only. Prism which is underdeveloped and may take a decade or more to develop has whooping transfer charges . Who would buy such plots and wait a decade?.
When you talk about investment there are many other opportunities rather than buying property and see your hard earned money loses its value in terms of depreciation. 162 and still counting.

The developed areas like phase 5 and phase 6 have transfer charges that one can not even imagine to buy as an investment since return will take ages. From my perspective easy money is over, better sell properties ( if you could get buyers ) and do productive work. The fate of property is ominous for those who can see.

User_6006 replied on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 11:31 PM PST 

Corporates sucks soul from body , its selfish dirty mean sluggish harsh professional life with stress and mother of diseases.we need agric reforms and soft indutrialization , better societies ,better commercial , better export of agric and soft industry and our strong currency with better health facilites and good tax but better salaries.and peace.

Tahir USA replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 03:29 AM PST 

Habib's analysis is absolutely correct. I'm an overseas for over 25 years practicing corporate laws. Here some gentlemen are simply ignoring the global realities and mechanism of economies. Just wishful thinking will not bring anything 'good' except more miseries if you are not smart and intelligent to act in time. This is what current government has done though I myself voted for it. Its a sheer incompetence and chaos; only useless speeches in the Parliament; and no meaningful legislation at all. Lately in our local Masjid many professionals and highly educated Pakistanis are talking the same as described by Habib, and do not want to remit their earnings anymore back to the country. Good luck.

Thelma replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:05 PM PST 

It is because of people expecting 3 times gain in their investments while sitting home doing nothing ,that Pakistan is In this economic crisis ...Why don't these oversearers invest in U.K. UAE,USA,....because their money will not multiply as fast ,...They only love Pakistan because their money will multiply at a phenomenal rate ,without them lifting a finger .something they can never dream of doing anywhere else in the world ....And they do us ehsan by calling it remittances ....If Pakistan stands on its feet ,which it will inshallah, we will not need yr remittances .....We will have our people investing in industries ,and not in pieces of land ,to get returns that will not only create jobs but we will be exporting to get the dollars that you were giving us as bheek in the name of remittances ...Inshallah Pakistan will stand up and fight all the free loaders ,free sleepers on our land ,Mufut khooras who were destroying our economy and yet making millions ....We will not need your money anymore ..God willing ...

Thelma replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:12 PM PST 

He starts his article with " long term investor in property " "not long term investor in industry ."
So u were an investor looking for returns without lifting a finger ...that you proudly say increased many folds when the crooks were ruling the country ...so u were so happy with yr smart investment and happy u were doing A favour to Pakistan...Now that we have an honest head ,you r suffering ...good ..I'm so happy u will never invest in our property for yr gains ever again ....we don't need you ...

Rana A. replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:29 PM PST 

Salam again to all,
@ Habib & Tahir, brothers i am also overseas since last 25 years and doing just business. But believe me what i found how easy is in Pak to multiply money, there is no where.
Yes, you are right , you have to be not only honest but also intelligent and hard working.

@Thelma, well answered and appreciate to have love for your land. You are right, there is no country in world which could multiply investment of some one while sleeping.
But Thelma, please dont take every overseas with same way. There are a lot who loves and their hearts beat with Pak. They feal pain when Pak not flourish. If today just will be stability in economic, you would see a lot overseas would come back with their earnings.

Arif replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 04:44 PM PST 

Don’t forget our economy heavily relies on remittances. If oversees Pakistanis stop transfer their savings to Pakistan the situation will get worst. Though government admits importance of remittances but they have no sense and vision to foresee the negative impact of its current measures on remittances.

Thelma replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 05:19 PM PST 

Rana sahib thanku...Arif sahib the hard working honest overseasers who love Pakistan and r not sending money to milk Pakistan but to help Their loved ones who happen to be Pakistani s..they r the silent builders of this nation ,who do not even know how their remittances r helping ..They will keep sending to their loved ones to invest whether in real estate or Business or just to support ....Theyr the real hero s and rest assured Habib sahib,thisepeople will keep sending ...because they r not sending it fir their selfish ends. They r sending money to their loved ones ,which in the end. Happens to be our dear Pakistan...long live Pakistan
The more people who were making millions CRY ,the more iim convinced that something is going Right for this country ...may yr millions go into the drains and may Pakistan make millions without yr brilliance..
Rest assured Pakistan is trying to stand on its feet. It may falter and u may clap in glee waiting for it to fall but the honest hardworking REAL Pakistani will hold its hand and make it not walk but RUN...

Consumer replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 05:48 PM PST 

Remittances going into property just give a temporary boost but are bad for growth and economy of the country in the long run. Should Govt allow the property to remain tax free zone and undocumented, so expats can enjoy doubling their money.
Property market must come back from speculations to real value

User_6006 replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 06:11 PM PST 

Govts need to understand property has its own three cycles and lomgest is slump so hovt should not aid by policies to keep it stagnant

We still need to make property 20 time more costly as our neigborhood cities Delhi,Mumbai,Dhaka ,chitahong ,kabul,tehran are.
To control population in major cities and to uplift small cities towns and agriculture.
People are bullshitting here.

Kh Qasim replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 06:33 PM PST 

The trade deficit numbers for October 2018 have been released by state bank.
Imports = 4.8 billion in Oct 2018
Imports = 4.8 billion in Oct 2017
No reduction in imports after 30% devaluation and extra duties.
Our problem is excessive and useless imports which is using up all the dollars. Exports cannot be doubled in months so that is not a solution for the immediate crises. This crises is not due to loans but due to imports of 60 billion per year.

Even if we get 12 billion from IMF and some help from China, we will use it all up by June 2019. What happens after that ? If these imports are not stopped, there are only two possibilities (mathematically) by June 2019.
1. We default and declare bankruptcy or
2. Dollar hits 200 to a Rupee so imports are automatically curtailed but we go into hyper inflation like Turkey and Iran

Kh Qasim replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 06:34 PM PST 

what are the useless imports that we are currently doing?
Many. There are two kinds. 1 things that we make but still import 2. Things we dont make but are useless. For e.g in the first category are things like Fans, exhaust fans, coolers, clothes, shoes, fruit, toys, motors, pumps, bathroom tiles, floor tiles, sanitary fittings, sinks, flushes, switches, etc. The second category are imports like fancy toys, sweets and chocolates, high end mobiles, LED TVs, perfumes, garments, bakery items, land cruisers, Prados, rugs, fancy furniture. Even simple toffees are being imported from China.

Ahsan Sattar replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 08:46 PM PST 

There is one thing called "Real Effective Exchange Rate" REER. The REER of Pakistan was around 125 in 2017 when Pakistan was asked to bring REER closer to 100 for any negotiations with IMF. Pakistan since then started devaluation.
Currently (at 162) the REER of Pakistani rupee is 103. This is fairly close to 100.
The problem with our currency is as soon the government brings REER close to 100 mark it starts rising again, because of number of factors including the trade deficit.
It will be keep depreciating but at lower rate till end of this year probably. After that global recession to follow.
Best of luck!
(At 100 it is considered that the currency is neither overvalued or undervalued. Above 100 is artificially over valued currency and below 100 is undervalued currency).

About imports:
In terms of luxury items called as "unnecessary" imports in this thread, these items contribute to some extent to the import bill. When we people talk about imports we normally come up with "luxury cars" as the most unnecessary import yet total vehical import is 4% including all.
Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)
Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)
Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)
Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%)
Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%)
Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%)
Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)
Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)

Our problem is we don't produce what the world demands.

PS: By the way we consume 15 liters of oil per capita. While world's average is 3 liter's. If we start consuming "NORMAL" we can save at least $2.1 billion of import and can even export edible oil :).

Adnan Ali replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 08:59 PM PST 

Main reason for current crisis is Dollar speculation, our dear STATE BANK has decided not to interfere in dollar price. so As soon as USD reaches 140, brokers start saying it will got 160, and now it touches 164, brokers say it will go 180, so people who carry USD in their home, do not encash, same way an exporter are not bringing their money in Pakistan but waiting to usd reach its Peak value, same way this speculation caused people to convert their pkr savings into usd which makes usd shortage in market.

There is not much trade deficit difference in recent months as compared to 2017, 2018. every thing could be normal if STATE BANK does it role by controlling brokers/speculators and say clearly that it will do every thing to make pak rupee value stable.

For God Sake, please do not discourage investors, no matter PTI or not, this country belongs to every one.

Current govt has spent 1 year and same way next 4 years will also pass. Next time some other party will be in power.
Do not be a blind supporter of your political party and if they are doing some thing wrong, accept it instead of trolling so it could be corrected.

Ahsan Sattar replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 09:20 PM PST 

@Adnan
There is one exchange rate called "interbank rate" and one rate called "open market" rate. The trade in money exchanges daily is worth around 10 million dollars (open market). While in the interbank (State Bank and commercial banks) its around 100 million dollars.
Who can influence the rate? Money exchanges?

Rana A. replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 09:32 PM PST 

Salam to all,
It's a long time to read really intellectual discussion.
In my view we all having moral duties on each stage on each level whether we are in land or out of land.
Also no doubt, the overseas pakistani were and are sending and sending money to their relatives or for themselves but our leaders + bureaucrates took it back to west.
As to pray namaz, first of all we should have wadoo but unfortunately in whole muslima umah incl. Pak we are liars, cheaters, selfish and lazy. We don't like to work but we want to be richest in overnight while sleeping.
Nrw govt is speaking about Madinah but still i did not undetstand, " why did they not implement the laws of Madinah Walay kay".
E.g; In Islam tax is named Zakat. It is 2.5%.
Its also true our leader is honest but he has to make his left and right hands also honest, intelligent, hard working and inventors, not "Lakeer day Fakeer".
If some obe tells me we are stupid nation, i would not believe. But govt has to find out honest and appropriate brains. They can ask whole nation, " please write down your suggestions how to come out the economic and moral crises without age, sex or region distinction". And govt.has to select best hundreds or best 10 and ultimately best 1.
No doubt, when you try to catch a thief that would show reaction in all possible ways even to kill you for ones escape. So this happened and happening. But captain also has not to let his boat sink while fighting.
Inland paki's or outland paki's also have not to start collecting dollars and even dieing with fear of loss in other investments. They have to think one minute, we are brown and we would stay brown outsiders on western world whether we are having western nationalities. We are called there, browny or blacky. Is it true or not?
Govt.also should not make scary to businessmen or investors. It is human nature, each one wants profit not loss.
In my suggestion, govt. should give them guarantee of security in all the ways and convince them to pay most least tax in the world. Believe me, whole business world would run to Pak.
I hope this amnesty would help Pak, InshaAlh.

Crying people always cry whether is spring or autumn, winter or summer. Is it right or not?

World steping forward so we should also step forward with passion, devotion and hardwork.

Wa salam,
An overseas

Kh Qasim replied on Thursday, June 27, 2019 10:30 PM PST 

Myth is that Pakistani's don't pay taxes Reality is that Pakistan is one the most heavily taxed country. Last year FBR budget revenues of 4398 billion from direct and mostly indirect taxes. If we divide 4398 billion by 10 crore adult Pakistanis, then each Pakistani will pay Rs 52,776 tax (mostly indirect) this year. Now average income of a Pakistani is Rs 12000 per month according to Government figures. That means that each Pakistani making Rs 12000 per month has to pay Rs 4398 in tax each month. This is almost 37% tax. This also makes Pakistan the most heavily taxed country in the world, and the sad part is that burden is mostly on poor and middle class Pakistanis. This year the tax revenue collection is estimated at 5500 billion. You can not extract more tax from these people. Yes the tax can shift from poor and middle class to rich one's with correct policies. But the fact our income is not much (that is the issue). We need to increase our income. If we want to collect more than we need to create wealth. Yes wealth can be created. That is the only solution.
Good planning is based on correct assumptions. If the assumptions are based not on hard facts and truths, but on wishes, the plan fails badly no matter how good the intentions. A classic case is this year's FBR target of Rs 5500 billion tax collection. This is based on 4% GDP growth rate, 10% inflation and around 20% growth in tax collection. All three assumptions are not based on any facts, trends, historical data, FBR capability and incentives but on wishful thinking. Needless to say FBR will fail to collect these taxes by next year, will cause further demoralization of its staff and will face even more criticism in the media. This is called "setting up to fail". FBR has set itself up to fail. The entire budget is based on the assumption that FBR will collect 5.5 trillion in taxes, and hence the entire budget will fail to meet its targets, and most developmental expenses would be halted in the middle of the year as revenues wont be as much as planned. This cycle would continue and we ll find ourselves in an even more miserable situation a year from now. Why cant the assumptions be made more realistic or even conservative like 2% growth rate, and if the growth is more FBR will exceed its target making life better for everyone. But this wont happen because we as nation dont want to face facts but want to feel good for now and not worry about tomorrow.

Tahir USA replied on Sunday, June 30, 2019 05:51 AM PST 

@Thelma, your love for my Pakistan is highly appreciated, but we should come out of suc delusional mind set of mere wishful dreams? Kh Qasim has made his point very convincing being logical with facts & figures, and some corrective measures as well. Rightly stated that this is "setting up to fail". Being honest is a good personal trait but is of no significance when one is incompetent to deliver and impotent to act in time to manage the mess. They could have managed it much better but have planned to fail. Current leadership knew for over 20 years that our country has been plundered massively by previous rulers. People voted for better change in their lives, instead got more hard time. What a change! Good luck.
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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 08:35 PM PST 
Chairman FBR on Property Prices

According to chairman FBR, the property prices will decrease (Source: express news dated: 18 June, 2019). What does this suggest? We should sell our properties now (as it is expensive at the moment) and then buy and hold US dollars? Otherwise according to him, it will decrease in future so what is the point in holding properties.

Ali replied on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 08:39 PM PST 

Yes. It's wait and watch game now. Suddenly it will be slide situation when people realize everywhere you see FOR SALE adds. In fact there are few buyers in the market already. It's only that people who are holding have holding power. And because people don't see any alternate investment venue.

ashraf replied on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 09:58 PM PST 

pl dont spread fake news .

Consumer replied on Thursday, June 20, 2019 04:18 AM PST 

The news is real. It's all over the national media. The game is psychological now. Who will blink first. Then there will be a slide in prices.

Consumer replied on Thursday, June 20, 2019 04:30 AM PST 

The new rules will be applicable after 1st July, so if you want to avoid CGT, sell it before 1st July

User_6006 replied on Thursday, June 20, 2019 12:50 PM PST 

They will take uturn soon my dear when they wont get enough taxes.
They will increase property because when they take tax from dealer , raxrs from seller and make on matket value .market will jump more to keep diatance from fbr market value toll next budget.

Abdul Ghafoor replied on Thursday, June 20, 2019 01:52 PM PST 

Property is already on slump. How much lower u want property to go? Don't expect people giving away plots for free. Keeping a plot does not cost extra or minimal fee. So unless someone is very much driven to get some money, I don't think people would start selling their plots taking in losses of 5 lakh or million PKR. Rest Allah knows best.

asad khan replied on Friday, June 21, 2019 01:18 PM PST 

Dear brothers, my post about 2 years from today was removed by the site admin.Now i ask the admin what has he to say, further misguide the people

Tahir replied on Friday, June 21, 2019 01:23 PM PST 

Property won’t remain investor friendly zone now even for overseas Pakistanis along with local investors. I know few of my friends overseas who bought 10-15 plots told me that they are loosing the value of their money where they live in terms of devaluation of Pakistan currency. They too wanted to sell few plots but no buyer at demanding price.

No one like to loose a penny even and that is the only reason properties got stuck. New entrants are afraid since prices are so high and property got left with no charms because of taxes and ROI seems delusional because of
Devaluation of currency and who knows how much devaluation is on the card because of free float exchange market. Govt has no call on dollars value.
It’s gonna be a hard ride for sure. Don’t want to scare people who have their vested interest in properties but Signs are ominous for those who can are foresighted
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Friday, June 14, 2019 01:30 AM PST 
Nothing will happen

Dear Folks , I have seen a lot of posts on property trends after Budget 2019 .Here is my take on it ::
- Nothing will happen. Prices in developed and semi developed areas will keep on increasing. Investor zones like Gwadar and Bahria will suffer high time.Reason
1. Inflation in Pakistan is at 11 to 15 % per annum
2. Take an example :: A government officer in mid career (say Grade 18) is earning around 150000 perks included and in private sector is earning around 350000 to 400000 ( I am saying for mid career Manager in a multinational) .Even with these sort of incomes considering high utility bills , taxes, fees for good schools , expensive health care ..etc., It is virtually impossible for a person if starting from scratch to purchase a house in DHA or Wapda Town or EME ...The brunt or impact of this mis match between income and inflation will come on property gain regardless of 10 year or 3 year gain tax or any other sanction.Property value has to increase. In 2013 an average or say good 5 marla house in Lahore was 1 crore ,in 2016 it reached 1.25 crore and in 2019 it has reached 1.5 crores ..Despite all odds and uncertainties DHA Town increased from 55 to 73 even more , DHA Peshawar from 57 to 120 for a very good plot in last 18 months .Some areas might be stagnant but they will gain eventually. If Prism gets possession the price of a good plot can reach 2.5 crores easily
Lastly there are 6000 + dealers in Lahore alone ,Similarly Karachi and Islamabad and rest of Pakistan. The real estate guys will ensure that property prices remain stable or increase not for us but for their Rozee Rooti. Finally Punjab alone population is 11 crore + .This population itself is a mass market and would not be affected by taxes .
That is my take and better invest in places advised earlier including DHA Multan, Prism, Peshawar DHA ...Remember our high population is our worst enemy and best opportunity

Investor replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 03:19 AM PST 

Rana sb. Plz Plz face reality in each and every sense I am not a mid range manger. This catagory you explained is even much better opportunities of survival potential than any else these days due to their fixed salaried income but those invested for last 3 years in your explained desired Multan project are stucked & secondly sorry to heard news that Dha Multan is fixing it's file price which is a very unrealistic approach in current senerio of economic conditions.
The small investor who invested in this project for the sake of short term profit taking to meet and to get some early profit on their solid investment and to meet their living expenses by investing are stucked.
But not anymore now property is game of time those who invested for long term will defenetly get consistant gains with the passage of time.
The reason being it's just a file its not a underdeveloped or developed plot.
When you say Dha prism 9 yes to some extant your statement fits only because this land is developing and in near future their is some possession situation for a final destination of end users & builders, developers.
Same like wise No doubt Multan has its own existance & potential only when locals are intrested like wise in wapda town. But situation is different because the overseas investors like you & me is the one who make this land into paradise. It will take some time to be adoped by locals. Like wise Prism 9 when it's all installments of development charges are paid than enter to get maximum profits in minimum time. Today prism 9 is best for investment (those who understand it's potential & location) as well as for end users because it is a liability free zone with no fear of bad location located in the heart of DHA Lahore connecting two different sides of Lahore.

Consumer replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 03:20 AM PST 

Prices of developed areas will show gradual decrease or you can say correction for 2 years and then there will be rise. But one thing is confirmed, the number of transactions will decrease and property dealers will look for other professions.
Last budget was also bad for property market, and transactions decreased although did not decrease and now magnitude a lot more. At least ab satta bazi Nahin chale gi. Let's see what happens to DHA Multan files. Will it touch 60 or revert to 44

User_6006 replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 05:09 AM PST 

The culture of horizontal societies will end in bigger cities and verticle will boom IA you will se kanal here in posh society will become 10 crore plus so that no one from no where sell its cheap agric land of khach kho and settle here for better education and health and increase its population with out any roots from here.and no one truly want to leave their homelands.govt should act as mother before introducing european taxes where salaries are high so does taxes and people can see where their taxes are utilizing. Khan sb we voted you to improve court and police and ebd corruption but it seems you are on verge of making poor govt with poorest people.
Rana sb you are not well aware of MN in Pakistan.salaries are quite lower i know on top level peopel earning even 2 million but 90% of are starter or mid level are earning from 25k to 2 lac max.we need to see majority not salt in meal minority even non MN pvt sector people doing jobs on 30k frim years .so these people buy a plot with great difficulty for their future expense as jobs have no savings and these people buy plot for their children marriages,education health and to maintain their life style b even people earning 1 million raise their life style and need to invest in plot to maintain it.but khan sb it seems want to make middle class poorest and govt poor because if uber increase fares it will get more fare per person but no of customer will drop and waiting time will increase same will happen with real estae.with lot of people directly and in directly related with real estae govt should care them and spread enterprenurship in middle class so that they lift up poor class instead of feeding them free.

User_6006 replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 05:15 AM PST 

If i buy plot higher and sell lower will govt compensate me .no it wont thn y part of gains to that extent.
Similarly Govt should act very responsibily they should ask charity like dam fund to pay loans.instead of committing this mistakes as property has ut longest cycle of slump or stangent govt should not act carelessly.
And first make education free and health facilites better to middle class who work hard and runs the country.

User_6006 replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 05:22 AM PST 

I wish govt make university in every district and hospital in every tehsil so that people of their invest in their lands and make comnercials on bigger roads provided by govt and population remains even steven distributed instead of over populating certain cities.

User_6006 replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 05:29 AM PST 

Make sraikistan province and put a ban in Punjab that only Punjabi can buy land no other or chines.this will serve well.

Investor replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 07:42 AM PST 

Govt discourage real estate so that investors swift their money into some productive sector. But govt didn't provide the alternative option. So now investments will be Block. No overseas pakistani has the time to invest in some productive sector. So if foreign remittance will not come it means dollar will go up. Inshort this is a very stupid policy. Govt have to collect 5.5 trillion tax which is the target of this year but by this policy they will unable to collect a single penny. Instead of recovering the looted money from zardari and nawaz they impose more taxes on nation. Govt wants to slaughter a hen for the search of golden eggs! Buyers will not buy because after 45 days they have to become filer and seller will not sell. And if transactions will not happen govt will receive rotten eggs instead of golden eggs!

C H A replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 12:30 PM PST 

Simply invest in best location commercial and hot favorite end user plots ....

Recommend buying in especially the phase that is underpriced and non possession..but you know on ground actual plot location .. there will be room for growth in value and will still be easier to sell due to broad base of real end users who will want to build ....

Avoid smaller cities where real end consumers are far less ..... most of the buying in those smaller cities
( bhawalpur/ gujranwala/ Multan )were by overseas/ or out of town investors ........these cities are not going to give good gains due to lack of real end consumer volume compared to Lahore

You may disagree but My humble suggestion would be Dha Lahore only for now and particularly exceptional location plots like Phase 9 plots as possible possession in next 1.5 to 2 years expected

If buy now at good price .... you can still sell at good profit even if you account for capital gain tax .....
I won’t mind paying capital gain tax if,
1) I can sell my plot easily .....
2) I can still have relatively good profit margin for my investment....

Thx

Ali replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 12:57 PM PST 

@CHA
Question is how many end users can AFFORD these plots?
Reality is that majority of our population can only DREAM of a house in DHA. Do you think that the existing societies in Lahore are not sufficient for the end users who can AFFORD? It's a huge supply. And the demand is going to fall after this budget gets approved and once investors are out of the game. It's simple demand and supply equation. We should not mix things.
Only hope is that the budget does'nt get through the NA. :) Best of luck

thinker replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 01:43 PM PST 

i think property dealers should find something else to do soon. Secondly even overseas Pakistanis specially is USA or UK or Europe would invest there, rather than in Pakistan and lose 15% each year due to rupee devaluation alone. A non filer buying a plot is like painting a target on yourself for the FBR. Genuine filers like salaried class professionals cannot afford anything good in property with these prices. So who is going to buy ? And this population increase logic is total non sense. 99% increase in population is happening in segments who cannot even afford two meals a day. Its not like the middle class is growing and poor are coming up and joining middle class. Its the other way round.

Rana Australia replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 01:54 PM PST 

I think it is a healthy discussion.I will write tonight when I am free and discuss opportunities. Thanks to all for commenting

USA DOC replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 04:05 PM PST 

I can tell you from overseas investor standpoint

1) dollar PKR exchange depreciation
2) capital gain tax ( high rate for 10 years )
3) decline in property transactions and price

All of these are against now for overseas remittances by investor

This will hurt country

Asif replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 06:54 PM PST 

Well, thinker & USA DOC have explained almost all important points in few lines. Investors in smaller cities and non-developed areas in Lahore are going to face worst liquidity issues in coming future, one may not be able to sell his file/plot even in loss.

Ahmed replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 07:33 PM PST 

If population is being considered as an "opportunity", then one has to learn from Indian reality market. It's a decade since real estate market is struggling with almost no growth in the sector. The had similar taxation issues and on top of that the dumping of old currency notes policy contributed to near death of real estate market. (We are also hearing news of PKR limiting to 1000 notes only)

Simple replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 08:08 PM PST 

People living in Pakistan have better idea of ground realities regarding property market & sufferings of common man. It's not a matter of ego rather we should have clear understanding about market behavior no matter it suites us or not.
I think we must accept this reality open heartedly that attraction in proerty market is over for at least next 5 years (exceptions are always there but we are talking about market overall).
It's a bitter truth that property prices has gone too high in most of the cities even out of the reach of majority population which is struggling to meet both ends, they dont even think to buy plots or house. Middle class itself is struggling due to sudden rise in inflation. We do not see any demand in near future so downfall in plots prices is obvious.

Thinker replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 08:53 PM PST 

I expect around 20% drop in prices by June 2020 when dollar will be at 170-180. Prices have to come to a level where a professional or businessman making 3-5 laks per month can buy a house. Right now its not possible. Massive economic down turn is expected in the next two years with declining incomes in all sectors including banks, auto, real estate, cement, education, retail, imports etc.

AHMAD HASSAN replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 10:04 PM PST 

Unfortunately all gain of last 5 years has been stolen by USD.

USA Doc replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 10:27 PM PST 

Yes dollar has killed all gains for us overseas
So sad 😞

Consumer replied on Friday, June 14, 2019 11:11 PM PST 

Dollar at all time high of 157.5 today in open market.
Rok sako tu rok lo ....
Tabdeeli aai re
Tabdeeli aai re

Tahir USA replied on Saturday, June 15, 2019 05:16 AM PST 

Let us be patient; wait and see. Inna Lillah he wa inna elaihe Rajeoon.

Ali replied on Saturday, June 15, 2019 10:40 AM PST 

طاہر صاحب
ریل اسٹیٹ کی میت پر آپ نے إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُوْنَ ہی پڑھ دیا ہے

anyone replied on Saturday, June 15, 2019 03:45 PM PST 

DHA ka Pithu ... jeolous from Bahria
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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 11:23 PM PST 

So Finance adviser has clarified the process for non filer. Once a non filer buys a plot, he will have 45 days to become a filer. Once the 45 day deadline expires he will get a tax liability notice within 30 minutes in which he will have to pay tax on the entire purchase price.

Overseas investor replied on Wednesday, June 12, 2019 11:52 PM PST 

Total killer for real estate this budget

thinker replied on Wednesday, June 12, 2019 11:55 PM PST 

On top of this, the non filer will have to pay 5% of plot price as penalty at the time of purchase which will be sent to FBR

Overseas investor replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:00 AM PST 

Does this apply to overseas buyer too ?

Thinker replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:16 AM PST 

Overseas buyer has to remit the entire amount from abroad into his own account in Pakistan, and purchase within 40 days using that amount

Simple replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 01:02 AM PST 

Bad time continues for property market especially for investors

Habib replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 01:46 AM PST 

@ simple yes I also see bleak future of real-estate, about 8,9 years back Govt of India also imposed such harsh Measures on Property Market and Market is stagnant for last 7 years, Inspire of huge Population and lots of Non resident Indians, so it can have serious and lasting impacts

User_6006 replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 02:04 AM PST 

People should demand high prices on their own and must not sell their assest cheaply

User_6006 replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 02:04 AM PST 

People should demand high prices on their own and must not sell their assest cheaply

Consumer replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 02:48 AM PST 

Investors actually exploit the actual consumers.. The dream of owning a house has been made difficult for ordinary Pakistani by these hoarders and investors. There is one party which develops plots, and other is which consumes. Then come the investors

User_6006 replied on Thursday, June 13, 2019 05:10 AM PST 

Dear consumer get a two cent of wisdom from here .jobs keep you hand to mouth.some people invest in property to afford their children health, education and marriages.in falhi riyast these things usually dont cost but pakistan is privitization mafia hence you always need money for basic live things and jobs cant fulfill it. There is zero oppurtunities for business and govt have no role currently in betterment of its people.khan sb applying changes on wrong places quickly instead of changing thana abd court katcheri culture.the team is misleading khan sb in these type of things.
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