Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(75193)
Tuesday, July 26, 2016 05:24 AM PST 
Answer to WhatsApp LRE group

*Very very important TIP based on my 14 years experience in real estate that you must not ignore*

Never ever invest in any scheme where you actually have very hard time to find even a dealer to buy or sell it . Just imagine how hard it will be for you to sell it when time or urgent need to sell comes. First due to many unknowns hidden things or unknown actual fair price you end paying a lot more than current real market rate as no trust worthy sources will be available to reconfirm true worth in low trading low priced dead trading schemes. Second at sale time you will be black mailed by only 5 or 6 dealers dealers working in low trading schemes as you can't approach a buyer directly without these few dealers involvement.

BECAREFUL and buy sell invest in only larger developers with proven past records and 100s dealers involved in it and 100s available plots locations options available to you.

My self have tried few low priced schemes to learn the lesson hard way. Found dealers have largest toka in hand in low trading schemes and just look for one or two kills each month and have no shame doing it to you each time as they are not looking for return clients. They just look for one more bhola bhola expatriate on Internet to slaughter next.

Its almost certain in each case when you buy you end up with at least 2 to 3 Lacs above market fair rate as buying price is fixed daily between only less than a dozen active dealers in such low trading schemes and same at time of need you are forced by same gang of only few dealers to sell under 2 to 3 Lacs of actual market worth of your property . They will never give you an offer until you are in tears to just dump it at any price and that too on baina. They purposely don't forward any good offers to you until you are ready to sign a baina at lowest possible price with one of the gang members. They share the loot afterwards.

Your wellwisher

Choudry Mujahid Yasin (CMY)
+ SMS or send WhatsApp text messages to join me in WhatsApp group or ask any questionserelating toLLahore Real Estate thatccan't be discussed in public here.
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(75191)
Monday, July 25, 2016 10:21 PM PST 

ISLAMABAD: The Finance Bill 2016 brought an amendment to Section 68 (4) of the Income Tax Ordinance that requires determination of fair market value of property to replace the flat rate set by district commissioners.

Accordingly, the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) has issued its panel of valuers, who will be charged with determining the real value of property and will be subject to approval of the Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) Inland Revenue administration.

Real estate set to win biggest tax amnesty

In the FY17 budget, the taxable period for capital gains on disposal of immovable property has been extended up to five years and a flat 10% tax has now been made applicable to the seller of the immovable property if he sells it within five years of purchase.

The law of property evaluation through the SBP-approved experts has been introduced presumably to curb speculation in property markets, discourage the whitening of black money and boost government revenue.

These are the intended consequences of the law, but let’s consider its unintended consequences.

Why investors speculate?

Speculation is part of the legitimate market activity, where speculators give a signal of buying when it is plenty and selling when it is short.

Speculators are autonomous responses to market fluctuations, though they may also cause these fluctuations. There has to be an excess supply in any commodity to attract speculation. In this case, it is the presence of surplus property files and vacant urban plots which attract speculation. This, in turn, is a function of bad zoning laws, which have pushed the cities horizontally instead of vertically.

In Pakistan, not only the bigwigs speculate, but everyone with even savings of Rs1 million does it through buying and selling property.

“Where else they would park their money if the business environment is not supportive, banks are giving loans only to the government and government keeps on increasing tariffs and taxes,” a fine point made by a Dubai-based Pakistani businessman Waliur Rehman.

Property market expects govt to take back controversial tax decisions

Thus, the debate should be on the real drivers of real estate market and not the symptoms. Government should not penalise investors for spotting the arbitrage.

Whitening black money

Suppose that suddenly all criminals and corrupt individuals stop their property transactions because of new laws. They need an outlet to stash their “ill-gotten” money, which resides in either cash or Benami accounts.

Its next likely destination will be forex markets, which will induce an upward pressure on the dollar, making it further appreciate against the rupee. This will most likely be shifted outside Pakistan and return whitened via remittance.

Once landed back, it will help stabilise and size up forex reserves – something which will be good for the current account but bad for trade balance, as exports will become dearer.

Therefore, it is better to let the black money remain inside Pakistan, as it is an externality of Pakistan’s legal system.

Govt revenues

In Lahore, properties are being transferred at rates of Rs2 to Rs8 million set by the district commissioners (DC), while market values of these properties are in the range of Rs12 to Rs30 million.

Govt may double tax on transfer of properties

Hence, on the DC rate evaluation method, the duties and taxes paid by the buyer were around Rs150,000 to Rs1.2 million, while the market rate evaluation method will increase these to Rs1 million to Rs3 million. Clearly, the government expects to make a windfall through the new valuation system.

However, there is a big assumption. Transactions will actually take place under new laws. While property speculation will be reduced, the transaction for even non-speculators will become costlier.

With additional duties and taxes slapped on property transactions, those wanting to buy property for their homes or businesses will be paying much more. Thus, the new law will penalise the legitimate buyers marginally more than the so-called speculators.

The Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry (KCCI) has proposed a better alternative – the prevalent DC rate system should be restructured and the changes in the DC rate can be made more frequent.

One demand should be added – the stamp duty and all other taxes on property sale and purchase should be drastically cut down. A combination of revision of the minimum price, lowered stamp duties and curtailment on Benami accounts will help create a win-win scenario for all the players.

Real estate in Karachi to stay unaffected despite budget proposals

As a result of the new legislation, three central government entities, which had no role in property valuation, have entered the marketplace. These are the SBP, FBR and Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan.

The mere thought of a sudden central government intervention in a market phenomenon is fearsome. It may be considered nationalisation of real estate market.

The consequences of nationalisation of businesses are well-established as anti-growth, anti-jobs and anti-economy. The case of nationalisation of property markets will be no different.

The writer is the founder and executive director of PRIME Institute, a free market think tank based in Islamabad

Published in The Express Tribune, July 25th, 2016.

Usama Javed® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 11:25 PM PST 

Situation getting better

FAA.awan replied on Tuesday, July 26, 2016 04:35 AM PST 

Good comments,I think govt cannot offord to stop real estate sector.Govt will have to give in this regard.

FAA.awan® replied on Tuesday, July 26, 2016 04:37 AM PST 

Good comments,I think govt cannot offord to stop real estate sector.Govt will have to give in this regard.

MIT® replied on Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:05 PM PST 

KCCI's proposal is quite viable. The trio's intervention is uncalled for and the recent act of PMLN is similar to the freezing of foreign bank accounts causing tremendous mistrust among the people. "Nationalization' chokes the economy which already is in shambles. Here the Government failed to do proper homework and have created a lot of panic and confusion with multiple taxation. Hope they fix it.

Szaidi® replied on Tuesday, July 26, 2016 01:57 PM PST 

How Govt. will fix market rates of the
files. Specially it seems difficult to fix rate of installment file.? After every quarter it value will change due to payment of new installment.?

Oversees Pakistani replied on Wednesday, July 27, 2016 01:12 AM PST 

Thank you CMY Sahib for your hard work!
Please someone can give a example that buyer or seller will pay how much taxes.

Password wrong 6191 replied on Wednesday, July 27, 2016 02:15 AM PST 

Nice article
What i know is that Govt is gonna bluff real estate negotiaters
Amnesty mean within stipulated period every plot holder has to pay tax on the difference of old and new dc rates whether he or she does not intend to buy or sell to whiten his/her money.
Once full money is white then after amnesty finish everybody property wealth
Is known to govt and then u ll see.
Anytime after amnesty finish they may adk from big fish how u earned so much.

Many points but i want to have feedback from folks

User_9629® replied on Wednesday, July 27, 2016 02:16 AM PST 

Nice article
What i know is that Govt is gonna bluff real estate negotiaters
Amnesty mean within stipulated period every plot holder has to pay tax on the difference of old and new dc rates whether he or she does not intend to buy or sell to whiten his/her money.
Once full money is white then after amnesty finish everybody property wealth
Is known to govt and then u ll see.
Anytime after amnesty finish they may adk from big fish how u earned so much.

Many points but i want to have feedback from folks
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(75190)
Monday, July 25, 2016 09:52 PM PST 

Tax ke issues main LRR ko sab bhool hi gaye hain.

May we have any updates please?
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(75186)
Monday, July 25, 2016 06:23 PM PST 

Salam to all,

Dear LRE and all experts,

Plaese assess the value of ph.7/x/1460/1, 2kanal.
Should we keep or to sell to go to some better growing phase? And which one?

Thanks & regards,

Rana

Hassan Raza replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 07:21 PM PST 

Dear Rana Sb,

Current value near X 1460/1 is around 225 lacs

Hassan Raza
+923028449766
Lahore Real Estate
Email:INFO@LREPK.COM
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(75185)
Monday, July 25, 2016 05:45 PM PST 

Aoa, dear LRE team, pls tell me the price of my 1 kanal plot in dha phase 9 prism N block near 615. Pls tell me is N block will be good in future because of oval complex in this block. Thanks

Aseem replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 10:51 PM PST 

In my humble opinion,its a prime
location plot and worth holding for long term...regards...
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(75182)
Monday, July 25, 2016 03:06 PM PST 
Plot Evaluation Prism R-1099

Dear LRE Team,

It is requested to kindly evaluate the price of the following plot


Dha 9 Prism
Plot no. R-1099


And also let me know when is the good time to sell it and buy 10 marla in the same phase. I.e DHA prism 9 .

Thankyou
Best Regards

Asim Irfan replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 04:56 PM PST 

Dear Shahwaiz Sb,


Current value near R 1099 is around 35 to 36 lacs ( 2 paid )

Asim Irfan
+923224003475
Lahore Real Estate
Email:INFO@LREPK.COM
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(75180)
Monday, July 25, 2016 03:03 PM PST 

Evaluation Required Prism
Please Estimate Current Value of zone 2 92

thanks
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(75179)
Monday, July 25, 2016 12:32 PM PST 

Many reserve names errors were noticed recently. S trying to check the reason for errors. If getting error please inform.

At this time checked few names and they are working fine. Due to sever rain storms here recently internet connection is not very stable for server and possible to have data disturbance.

Flex01® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 01:33 PM PST 

i was getting error posting yesterday

User_19581® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 02:20 PM PST 

Me too for last two weeks getting error

ButtSaab® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 02:27 PM PST 

I also cannot start a new post, can only comment under a post.

I get advertisement error.
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(75178)
Monday, July 25, 2016 12:00 PM PST 

Post:



I really appreciate fast successful meetings our FBR Team, Mr. Haroon Akhter and Minister for current Tax Policy. Why did not this respected management utilizing goby from other countries like Europe, Australia, USA or Canada. Currently the discussion concludes that Black Money (OVERSEAS HALAL EARING) becoming issue day by day and it will effect drastically to Overseas Pakistani. A small change in system can resolve many issues and will give best conversion and usage of “WHITE MONEY”



I will feeling itchy and uncomfortable by giving the example of India our neighbor where all overseas Indian have one NRIs (Non Residence Indian) account (NRE), which is using very efficiently and effectively in-country and no BLACK and WHITE concept for overseas workers. Our Management can take other country best goby.



Non Residence Overseas account lets Overseas Pakistani transfer Our earnings to Pakistan conveniently with complete security in “WHITE” mode.

Features & Benefits: (1.) Free transfers of funds freely between Pakistan and abroad. (2.) Pay ZERO tax on the interest earned on your Non Residence Account in Pakistan

Accessibility: (1.) Withdraw cash easily and shop worldwide with International Debit Card. (2.) Appoint a mandate to operate your account for you

Managing your account: (1.) Transfer your funds freely to any place outside Pakistan. (2.) Conduct transactions securely online, 24x7 with Net Banking . (3.) Other benefits of Pay utility bills, Cheque books, sage deposit lockers same typical.



To transfer money to your NR Overseas account, we can: (1.) Transfer funds from abroad in a freely convertible foreign currency (2.) Present foreign currency notes / traveler’s cheques brought in by us on your visit to Pakistan. (3.) Directly remit the amount to Pakistan bank from your overseas bank account. (4.) Transfer funds from an existing Non Residence Overseas Account held in other banks in Pakistan.



Now when one overseas will use this amount purchasing the property by paying from his overseas account the money will be always WHITE and no need to worry to overseas employee as well as FBR. It will save a lot of time and work very professionally.



Best Regards,



Rehan Ahmad

Habib replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 12:32 PM PST 

I 100% agree with Rana, there should be NRP account Like in India NRI account, It works like Legal off Shore account and helps that Country,
Honestly I have to transfer money in Pakistan from UAE but looking for Off Shore account as I don't know where my Kids Need this Money In future, UK Canada or Somewhere else. From Pakistani account it is difficult to transfer Money out though not impossible,
I will appreciate if Govt can establish NRP account of same or even more functionality than NRI account. It will be a great help for overseas people and Pakistan itself.
Already Govt initiative for Pakistan origin Card have helped a Lot many overseas Pakistanis, They can still fell they are in Home and buy property and Come anytime when they want.
I will ask Forum Members if they have experience in transferring Money out of Pakistan from Foreign Currency Account, what are the regulations? and How lengthy is Process?.

Arif M® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 02:35 PM PST 

Good points. But this is PMLN'S Pakistan that is run by businessmen. Unlike India where Politicians run the country. Not businessmen.

Dude replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 05:02 PM PST 

I think, a good businessman can be a good politician as well, and I don't see any problem in PML (N) regime's being business entity. I also have no problem if India's business community didn't get any opportunity to get into politics or rule their country. Being a common man having no political affiliation with any one in any context, I believe, good job done by anyone must be acknowledged and criticism for the sake of criticism is no criticism, therefore, must be avoided.

Arif M® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 05:39 PM PST 

A good businessmen will ALWAYS keep his own business interests at top. and that is what Nawaz is doing. Sacrificing country on his personal business interests. With India, KSA and Turkey. Whereas our Finance minister Ishaq Dar has business interests in Dubai real estate. When you elect businessmen to rule you then you get sudden change in policies just 2 days before budget approval (policies kept secret again to safeguard their own business interests.) If we go back to Nintees we know that same businessmen rulers made special laws for for 2-3 days just so can take advantage of them. Thats what you get with businessmen rulers.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 06:04 PM PST 

Asad Kkaral on THALKA TV reporting that current property taxes are part of specific planning. Read details here.

http://tehlka.tv/ur/2016/07/17/%D9%BE%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%DB%81-%D9%84%DB%8C%DA%A9%D8%B3-%D9%86%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B2%D8%8C%D8%B2%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%DB%8C-%D8%AE%D9%81%DB%8C%DB%81-%DA%88%DB%8C%D9%84-%D9%85%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%B1/

FAA.awan replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 07:20 PM PST 

It is dirty politics by Nawaz league .Nawaz and party are taking revenge from real estate investors.Nawaz league is a dull and narrow minded party.Do n't worry they have failed ,at last property business will be a winner.
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(75175)
Monday, July 25, 2016 01:16 AM PST 
A question to ponder!

It is being said that the Govt. and Real Estate representatives are negotiating a deal to save the real estate sector, but I think the currently available information suggests that the RE Reps are ignoring a major factor that would be more harmful for Real Estate business in the short and long term

As it seems, there will be an agreed "Fair Market Value" on the conclusion of negotiations, which will be declared as DC Rate.

It means that an investor will have to pay 5% (3% Stamp Duty + 2% CVT) on DC (Fair Market) Rate at the time of purchase, and 2% Withholding Tax at the time of sale of a Plot.

In addition, investor will also pay 1% commission at the time of Purchase, and 1% commission at the time of sale of the same plot.

Moreover, about 1% Transfer Fee/Documentation Charges for the transfer of the same plot will also be paid by the investor.

This means that an investor will have to pay about 10% of Fair Market value (3+2+2+1+1+1 %) on a single plot investment/deal. It means that an investor will not be able to sell a plot until he covers these 10% extra charges.

Such a scenario is bound to damage the real estate market until the percentage of Stamp Duty, CVT, and Withholding Tax is not reduced reciprocally in accordance with the increase in DC Rate.

For example, the currently announced DC Rate of DHA Phase 9 Prism is 30 Lac per Kanal. But if the DC Rate is increased to say 100 Lac (approximate Fair Market Value) per Kanal, then the Stamp Duty + CVT + Withholding Tax (3+2+2 = 7%) will increase from Rs. 210000 (at current rate) to Rs. 700000.

This situation will sharply reduce the number of transactions. So I believe that the Real Estate representatives must take up this matter on top priority, rather than just focusing on Amnesty for Source of Income that perhaps will benefit only the major players in the business rather than the real estate business in general.

Hafiz replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 02:57 AM PST 

Hmmmm good observation bokhari sb . But right now 210000 on 30 lac is around 7% old rates . Then whats the difference when it goes to 1 crore ??? Kindly check please . Thanks

Abdal® replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 03:09 AM PST 

Fair Market Tables will be developed and agreed separately. DC Rate Tables which is the domain of provincial government will stay separate. CVT and Stamp Duty being provincial taxes are calculated based on DC Rate Tables and effective July 1, 2016 DC rate is binding for the aforesaid provincial taxes. For Filers, effectively the impact of Advance Tax of 1% on Seller and 2% on Buyer will be calculated on Fair Market Value will be NIL as these are adjustable. However, for Non Filer it will be a big impact i.e. 2% on Seller and 4% on Purchaser of Fair Market Value as for him it will be non adjustable unless he becomes a filer; apparently the intention is to increase the cost of doing business for Non Filers. Hope it clarifies.

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Monday, July 25, 2016 03:27 PM PST 

HafI Sb, 7% of 1 Crore will be 700000 at new rates.

Abdal Sb, It will be unrealistic to have two rates: 1) DC Rate 2) Fair Market Rate, because once you declared to have purchased a plot at DC Rate, you will have to pay 10% Gain Tax on the difference between DC Rate and Fair Market Rate at the time of sale, which will again be a huge amount.
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(75174)
Sunday, July 24, 2016 07:54 PM PST 
Valuation

What is the market value of T 782 phase 8 Dha?
Regards
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