Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(75127)
Wednesday, July 20, 2016 05:42 PM PST 

Dear friends an important note to save a lot of money. Even if you have not received your Dha Lahore 9 Prism or DHA Phase 8 Ivy Green plots development charges intimation letters still you must pay due installments to avoid fine and interest on fine that is huge 20% calculated daily bases on each missed installment for each day you missed it.

Approximate per day fine for each missed installment is
01 Kanal = Rs 91
10 Marla= Rs 61
05 Marla= Rs.41
04 Marla Commercial= Rs 91
08 Marla Commercial= Rs 174

If can afford pay installments and donate possible files amount for good cause instead of giving to DHA. BTW DHA never ever waive off any fines. Must send separate pay order for each plot to DHA.

Never pay more than due installments as higher paid plots very hard to sell in market. Never pay full amount in advance or forget about selling it untill all nearby plots locations are full paid too. No discount to pay in lump sum to sellers but only buyer lose a chance to pay remaining due amounts in installments so he will only look for due paid plots instead of full paid.

*BTW market is very slow because taxes issue may take a while to get solved. Law have to be passed in parliament to reduce reverse or correct it and also announce amnesty scheme on property sale purchase money in past and for future couple of years*

Let the corrupt people sell their DC rates purchased land for CPEC projects or routes at new 10 times higher market rates to Govt first to mint easy billions more dollars and than let these poor guys once again take those easily minted billions of dollars to outside Pakistan by making them halal and trouble free through in near future amnesty scheme on transactions ( You will be told it is a big favor for you to recover the recent loses) . All this is going to take a lot of time so best thing for you to do is to play Pokémon Go for now with your kids or take your kids out side so they can catch a few birds :)




Your friend
Choudry Mujahid Yasin ( CMY )
+

Ashfaq® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 06:51 PM PST 

Brothers, just to let you know the fine on late payment comes under category of "Interest" according to Shariah rulings. Please do not delay payment of development charges even for one day. Anyways, everyone has his own choice and views. I am not forcing anyone.

Babar® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 08:32 PM PST 

I have a question, if someone is not paying the installments of his 1-kanal plot for complete 3 years, what will be the total amount of delay penalty / surcharge ?

User_19995® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 08:56 PM PST 

365*3*91=99645 PKR

SIM replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:25 PM PST 

So no more real estate business in near future

User_18559® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:50 PM PST 

@ Ashraf,

Total Delay penalty for all installments will be = Rs. 655,200
Development charges after 3 years will be 1,950,000 + 655,200 = Rs. 2,605,200.

User_18559® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:51 PM PST 

Sorry above message was in reply of Babar.

MIT® replied on Thursday, July 21, 2016 01:01 AM PST 

@Ashfaq..What if, one is unable to pay the charges due on time for any reason(s)? Instead of giving your 'fatwa' leave it to the people to decide themselves because each and every sour is responsible for his own deeds. You and myself shall go to our own graves separately.

Ashfaq® replied on Thursday, July 21, 2016 02:16 AM PST 

@ MIT. Please not I am not a scholar and I didn't give a fatwa. I just shared one ruling and clearly mentioned *everyone has his own choice and views. I am not forcing anyone*. If you don't like it just ignore it. I hope message is clear now.

Rana786® replied on Thursday, July 21, 2016 08:20 AM PST 

Bahio,

I right calculation is as follows.

1st installment pay nahi ki so 91*365 = 33215 for 1 year.
2nd installment pay nahi ki so 91*(365-120) = 22,295 for 1st year.
3rd installment pay nahi ki so 91*(365-240) = 11,375 for 1st year.
4th installment pay nahi ki so 91*(365-360) = 455 for 1st year

2nd year will be the same but you add previous year.

Farhan_29® replied on Thursday, July 21, 2016 03:49 PM PST 

Rana sb second year mai first year ka compound interest bhi pare ga plus the second year fine
>
(75126)
Wednesday, July 20, 2016 04:03 PM PST 

Is it worthwhile to sell a Prism R Block 5 marla Plot and AWT Phase 2 10 marla Plot right now and buy 1 kanal in Prism Phase 9?

Experts please advice will the 2 small plots be better for future gains or one large plot of 1 Kanal?

Asad-Ali replied on Thursday, July 21, 2016 04:22 PM PST 

your current profile 5 marla R Block and AWT 2 10 marla are quite good and no need to switch to 1 kanal prism, because it will cost you huge Taxes,
transfer fee and dealer commission.
>
(75125)
Wednesday, July 20, 2016 02:53 AM PST 

Amendments through the Finance Act, 2016 may hurt small and genuine buyers and sellers but not the big players in real estate business




inShare
5
9
The investment in real estate in Pakistan and its taxation has once again become a subject of interest, debate and controversy. It is a fact that the lucrative investments/gains in this sector, like speculative transactions at stock exchange, has been the most attractive shelter for black money in Pakistan as well as generating further unprecedented untaxed profits.
The big fish milking profits in these two sectors will remain unaffected even after amendments through the Finance Act, 2016, courtesy the permanent immunity available under section 111(4) of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001. The determination of market value of property by any of the 59 firms notified by the State Bank of Pakistan (SB)) may hurt the small and genuine buyers and sellers but not the big players in this business.
There are many lacunae, loopholes and shortcomings in the law — poorly drafted by unskilled bureaucrats sitting in the Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) — relating to taxation of capital gain arising on disposal of immovable property that could be exploited by unscrupulous elements without or with the connivance of valuers/officials. Besides, the constitutionality of taxing gain of immovable property, urban and rural, by the federal government, is also questionable.
According to a report in The News, the FBR is of the view that valuation through SBP’s notified panels, aimed at taxing/countering black money as 75 per cent transactions in real estate sector are understated, will yield huge revenues. Businessmen, opposing the move, are alleging that new “doors for corruption have been opened.” Their argument is that the amendment amounts to transgressing the right of provinces to tax gain on immovable property and notify ‘valuation tables’ for registration of the same.
Section 68 of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001, as amended by Finance Act, 2016, reads as under:
68. Fair market value.– (1) For the purposes of this Ordinance, the fair market value of any property or rent, asset, service, benefit or perquisite at a particular time shall be the price which the property or rent, asset, service, benefit or perquisite would ordinarily fetch on sale or supply in the open market at that time.
(2) The fair market value of any property or rent, asset, service, benefit or perquisite shall be determined without regard to any restriction on transfer or to the fact that it is not otherwise convertible to cash.
(3) Where the price other than the price of immovable property referred to in sub-section (1) is not ordinarily ascertainable, such price may be determined by the Commissioner.
(4) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-sections (1) and (3), the fair market value of immovable property shall be determined on the basis of valuation made by a panel of approved valuers of the State Bank of Pakistan.
Withholding tax on purchase and sale of immovable property at market rate and then taxation of capital gain on disposal is not aimed at countering black money as claimed by the FBR. Rather, it will help the property dealers/developer mafia. It will make near to impossible for a majority of Pakistanis to dream for a decent living.
The above amendment juxtaposed with others provisions, amended this year, provides that from tax year 2017 onwards, gain arising out of disposal of immovable property within 5 years of its purchase, will be taxed. The term ‘immovable property’ also includes agriculture lands! The gain on sale will be: market value minus cost. This means one is penalised for earning windfall gains if he is not engaged in property business. As regards sale and purchase of properties on regular basis or as adventure in the nature of trade, the same is already treated as regular business taxable under section 18 read with section 2(10) and not as capital gain under section 37 of the Income Tax ordinance, 2001.
In Finance Act 2016, those engaged in the business of construction and sale of residential, commercial or other buildings property have been favoured by the FBR as they can now pass on their entire tax burden to their customers. They will pay fixed tax (charged to customers) and no tax on their real profits. Is this prudent taxation? Not at all. In fact, those engaged in the business of construction and sale of residential, commercial or other buildings have been “accommodated”, while genuine investors penalised. The unscrupulous ones will get “desired valuation” and arrange funds accordingly through fake remittances paying a premium of 2 to 3 per cent to exchange dealers. Against them no action under section 68 and/or section 111 of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001 would be possible.
Withholding tax on purchase and sale of immovable property at market rate and then taxation of capital gain on disposal, as elaborated above, is not aimed at countering black money as claimed by the FBR. Rather, it will help the property dealers/developer mafia. It will make near to impossible for a majority of Pakistanis to dream for a decent living.
For the unscrupulous elements, doors of whitening money have been kept wide open. They can get their untaxed funds whitened through section 111(4) of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001 which says that no action can be taken in respect of “any amount of foreign exchange remitted from outside Pakistan through normal banking channels that is encashed into rupees by a scheduled bank and a certificate from such bank is produced to that effect”. This is why every year foreign remittances are increasing even though job markets for our workers abroad are rapidly shrinking while expatriates are also under stricter scrutiny to send money!
The levy of income tax on gain on disposal of urban and rural immovable property by the federal government is also unconstitutional. Through Finance Act 2012, section 37(5) of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001 was amended to impose income tax on gain of immovable property. Interestingly, the Punjab Assembly also levied tax on gain of immovable property through Punjab Finance Act 2013. Obviously, one of them is violating Article 142 of the Constitution of Pakistan. Both the national and the provincial assembles cannot use item No 50 of the Federal Legislative List, Fourth Schedule to the 1973 Constitution, to levy tax on gain of immovable property. The federal government can levy taxes on matters enumerated in the federal legislative list and residual matters fall in the domain of the provinces.
After the Eighteenth Constitutional Amendment, article 50 reads as: “Taxes on the capital value of the assets, not including taxes on immovable property”. Prior to amendment, its wording was: “Taxes on the capital value of the assets, not including taxes on capital gains on immovable property.”
From the plain reading of Entry 50, as it stands after the amendment, it is unambiguous that the National Assembly can levy taxes on capital value of moveable assets but has no authority to levy taxes, including capital gain tax, on immovable property.
The omission of words “capital gain” from Entry 50 does not extend jurisdiction to the federal government to impose income tax on gain of immovable property. The phrase “not including taxes on immovable property” cannot be read to “include taxes on capital gains on immovable property.” Provinces have exclusive right to tax gain on immovable property situated within their territories and Punjab Assembly rightly exercised its constitutional right in 2013.
In the wake of Eighteenth Constitutional Amendment, the federal government cannot levy any kind of tax on immovable property. Unfortunately, the National Assembly passed an unconstitutional law to this effect in 2012 and has made further amendments in it through Finance Act, 2016. This proves that our parliamentarians act as mere rubber-stamps for tax bureaucrats who “brief” (in fact dictate) them to easily get even unconstitutional laws passed! This badly reflects on the competence of the entire House — none from the opposition raised any objection in Senate or National Assembly to this unconstitutional levy by the federal government.
The remedy for the government is now to ask National Assembly to repeal this weird imposition or brace itself for a challenge under Article 199 of the Constitution.

Asad-Ali replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 04:41 AM PST 

Thanks sir but i am still unable to understand how it will not effect big investors and effect small investors? permanent immunity is for both small and big investors , both can make white money their undocumented assets by paying 2% to govt. Also role of 59 approved SBP firms will remain same for both no matter if he is small investor or big ? Thanks

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 05:18 AM PST 

آج ایک ٹی وی انٹرویو میں اختر عبدالرحمن فرما رہے تھے کہ ملک قرض سے نہیں بلکہ ٹیکسوں کے نظام سے چلتے ہیں ۔ یعنی لاھور میں جو اربوں روپے کے منصوبے قرض لے کر لگائے گئے ہیں ان کی ادائیگی اب انہیں کے پیسوں سے کی جائے گی جو ان منصوبوں سے مستفید ہونے کے لئے سرمایہ لا رہے تھے۔ حقیقت یہ ہے کہ حکومت قرضہ لے کر اپنی جیب خالی کر چکی ہے ۔ اب ان کے پلے کچھ نہیں ماسوائے ٹیکس لگانے کے ۔ اور یہ کوشش بھی ناکام ہو جائے گی۔

MIT® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 09:08 AM PST 

CMY: Thanks for sharing such an excellent legal brief on the matter. Under article 199 , especially after 18th amendment of the Constitution current draconian tax laws cannot prevail provided we have a proper 'system' which unfortunately we don't have. Rightly said; such heavy handedness in drafting and getting 'passed' such unconstitutional laws by bureaucratic junta is simply because of the inapt and mostly corrupt so called legislators claiming 'mandate of the people'. They are active only in increasing their own perks and benefits without debate. That's why we should strive for genuine democracy to get justice for all.

MIT® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 09:08 AM PST 

CMY: Thanks for sharing such an excellent legal brief on the matter. Under article 199 , especially after 18th amendment of the Constitution current draconian tax laws cannot prevail provided we have a proper 'system' which unfortunately we don't have. Rightly said; such heavy handedness in drafting and getting 'passed' such unconstitutional laws by bureaucratic junta is simply because of the inapt and mostly corrupt so called legislators claiming 'mandate of the people'. They are active only in increasing their own perks and benefits without debate. That's why we should strive for genuine democracy to get justice for all.

Noman Ahmed replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:49 PM PST 

Dear CMY SB,

What would be the tax rate if somebody builds a house and then sells it before 05 years,


regards

Asad-Ali replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 05:31 PM PST 

As a Side Note: If some person made transfer after july 1st, can share his experience that how much TAX he paid (as seller or buyer) ?

Khan_114 replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 05:57 PM PST 

1. I think if the tax ever going to hurt someone it would be investors...not the common man who is already suffering from such high rates of real estate.....
2. if investors, small or big; have not flooded real estate sector with their undocumented money (with due respect i m not saying "black" money) this stage wouldn't have come.....
3. In this very forum, people excitedly inquire about when the Alternate route is starting, or ring road construction, or defence road widening (of course these projects are neither built from the personal pockets of rulers nor from real estate investors but from punjab govt's share in the tax collected from pakistanis) but when asked to share profit they made due to these projects ranging up to 50-60 % in less than a year, then suddenly everyone gets upset.

Khan_114 replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 05:57 PM PST 

1. I think if the tax ever going to hurt someone it would be investors...not the common man who is already suffering from such high rates of real estate.....

Khan_114 replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 05:58 PM PST 

2. if investors, small or big; have not flooded real estate sector with their undocumented money (with due respect i m not saying "black" money) this stage wouldn't have come.....

Khan_114 replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 06:00 PM PST 

3. In this very forum, people excitedly inquire about when the Alternate route is starting, or ring road construction, or defence road widening (of course these projects are not built from the personal pockets of rulers nor from real estate investors but from punjab govt's share in the tax collected from pakistanis) but when asked to share profit (ranging up to 50-60 % in less than a year), they made due to these projects then suddenly everyone gets upset.

User_12307® replied on Friday, July 22, 2016 02:36 PM PST 

Wait till the real estate tax amnesty is launched,..to make our ruling elite`s property white ...Geo Pakistan...
>
(75124)
Wednesday, July 20, 2016 01:17 AM PST 

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
الحمدلله رب العالمين و رب العرش العظيم

Test of urdu post

Ashfaq® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 01:18 AM PST 

Great change.....
.
جزاك الله خيرا

Rana786® replied on Thursday, July 21, 2016 08:21 AM PST 

JazakAllah
>
(75123)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:54 PM PST 

Can someone please make a comment .
if somebody wants to use white money ,to purchase a plot and also willing to pay all dues. Govt taxes and is a legitimate. Tax filer with nothing to hide .Is the current market scenario good for transaction ,for such a person .

Khalid Azad® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:02 AM PST 

Rest is best.

LOYAL PAKISTANI replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 02:09 AM PST 

100 yes an ideal one. Price negotiation chances are bright as only fair transactions.
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(75122)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 09:37 PM PST 
Membership and regestation fee for Gujranovala DHA plots

Dear friends,can any body tell us the total amount registration and membership fee for DHA Gujranwala for 10M and IK..I have been suggested to deposit now.

User_11960® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:31 AM PST 

I know for sure that Membership Fee for 10M is Rs 37,000/=
>
(75119)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:50 PM PST 

latest on property tax matter from Daily Jang today. Direction is positive.

RAPak® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 05:23 PM PST 

I would like to request the property specialists to provide the outcome when DC and market rate difference will be very less. Will it affect societies like Bahria town and DHA? Highly appreciated if explain with example. Please advise shall we sale our
files before it will happened.

RAPak® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 05:46 PM PST 

I would like to request to property specialists to spread a light on outcome when DC rates and market rates difference will be minimum.

Will it effect big societies on DHA and Bahria town? Highly appreciate with explain with one example.

Please advise shall we sale our
files before this happened.

saif replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 08:10 PM PST 

Dc rates are kept far below the market rates so that when government needs land to acquire for some project it is easier to get land. like acqusition for CEPEC. would government pay market rates to CEPEC and other land owner for their projects????????

Asad-Ali replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 08:25 PM PST 

you are right saif, for example during LRR southern loop, government must pay according to new DC Rate (which should be equal to to market value) for land acquired. It will be also good for LRR Authority vs Bahria town/GVR issues.

azee replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 09:40 PM PST 

Their own friends have been purchasing land in the vicinity of LRR Southern Loop in the recent past sure before budget, how big lottery it can be if they had purchased with old DC rate now will sale to Govt. at new D.C.Rates....Imagine

Top two business these days 1.Politics 2.Media , am I right?

Hafiz replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 10:46 PM PST 

This new tax will effect the
files prices in dha lahore commercial sector and resodential sector and how much you people think it will be ??
>
(75117)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 07:51 AM PST 
Real estate taxation — a blessing or a curse?

Real estate taxation — a blessing or a curse?

The Finance Bill 2016 caught everyone by surprise in the real estate sector especially persons with black money and short term speculators. For them it is a nightmare that FBR can value the properties at fair market value which have taxation repercussions regarding source of investment and thereafter can levy Capital Gain Tax (CGT) if the asset is held for less than five years. The whole real estate market is in shock and statedly it has been learnt that in some major housing entities the business is almost at halt. There are visible signs for arranging strikes in some major cities in Pakistan but so far no defined agenda in terms of demand has been made public especially by real estate dealers association.

Interestingly, the here-say is that the two major amendments would discourage foreign remittance to Pakistan, which apparently is totally misplaced. The overseas Pakistanis, if they remit their money through normal banking channels per income tax ordinance 2001, are exempt from tax and the remitted money is treated purely “white”. In fact, previously when an overseas Pakistani with “white” money used to buy as asset and get it registered at Deputy Commission (DC) value he was willingly or unwillingly converting part of his “white” into “black” money.

As an example, an asset bought for PKR 10 Million and registered at a DC value of PKR 2.5 Million would transform an overseas person’s major chunk of money i.e. PKR 7.5 Million into “black”. This was totally undesirable but he had to follow the market practice by getting the sale purchase agreement registered at the DC value. The beneficiary was other party who in most of the cases did not have enough “white” money to complete the transaction. Therefore, the worry should be for people who have untaxed money but not the overseas Pakistanis who have, in fact, only “white” money.

Secondly, the capital gains tax has been levied @10% of the gain between sale and purchase price if the property is sold within five years of its purchase. This amendment is also geared towards curbing speculative trading which majority of the overseas Pakistanis do not intend to undertake due to their remoteness and investment strategy. Hence, practically it will not impact the overseas Pakistanis and even in case a 10% tax is paid on the gain, it should be acceptable considering the high tax rates on capital gains which they are bound to pay in most of the foreign countries of their residence, except for middle east.

The 10% tax slab is rational considering that on other business incomes, the applicable rate is around 35%. Hence the applicable rate is very well lower than the tax rate levied on normal business income. Conclusively, the overseas Pakistanis should consider these aforesaid changes in the tax statute as a blessing in disguise as it will allow them to properly make their declaration and let their “white” money remain “white” instead of being forced to convert it in to “black” money, under the older system. However, a piece of advice for overseas Pakistanis would be to at least stick to the below:

1) Use normal banking channels to remit their money into their bank accounts from overseas. Keep the relevant documents in their record for future purposes. The documents in order of precedence would proceed realization certificate issued by their Pakistani bank, bank statement from Pakistani bank and remittance receipt of overseas bank.

2) If you intend to purchase the property it should be with “white” money. The sale-purchase agreement should be on the fair market value of the property and not the DC vale. The agreement has to be signed by both parties and should not be left blank. If you are a filer, you can declare it, else keep it in safe record for future use.

3) In case you intend to sell a property, hold on till the dust is settled and the issue of capital gain is cleared. Else, the maximum you have to pay is 10% of the gain between fair market value and purchase price.

Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) remained helpless especially during last five years and was made to accept DC values owing to FBR’s own circulars wherein the aforesaid were binding. FBR tried to suggest changes in the statutes which included desperate measures including proposing to the government that FBR could acquire the property at 25% additional price compared to the registered price. But government rightly struck down these proposals as it could have created panic in the market. However, the recent amendment regarding fair market valuation and levying of capital gain if an asset exchanges hand within five years of its purchase merited consideration which the government approved through legislature. The implications of these two amendments are far reaching:

Fair Market Value: If the transactions would be registered at Fair Market Value, the seller would have to pay CGT (within five years of its purchase) and purchaser would have to produce “white” money to complete the transaction which will be an uphill task. Else, the tax implications, including levy of evasion penalties and additional tax, could eat up major portion of the market value of the asset under transaction. The measure would definitely discourage “black” money holders who were hiding their wealth in real assets.

Capital Gain Tax (CGT): The levy of CGT withholding period less than five years is an attempt to discourage speculative trading. Currently, speculative trading had resulted in creating artificial hike in prices, leaving it to be a mere dream for ordinary Pakistanis to build a house of their own.

Surprisingly, the real estate dealer associations have not yet come up with their official demand of charter. I even wonder what a rationale set of demand could be; do away with fair market value or abolishing the holding period of capital gains tax. Both of these do not hold merit for serious consideration in view of the fact that the provisions have been included to check “black” money and speculative trading. Hence, what could be the options at hand and what could be the possible outcomes:

1) Stay from Higher Courts: Apparently, there is no cogent reason as the bill has been passed by the National Assembly and the intention of legislature is clear – discourage black money holders and curtail speculative trading

2) Street Protests and Hold Off: Unless there is a genuine and rationale agenda, it will be difficult to muster supporters from ordinary citizens apart from the stakeholders which will be represented by real estate agents. The government may not be pressed for revenue loss due to halt in business considering their long term goal. Per daily Express clipping by Shahabaz Rana dated July 14, 2016 Naveed Zafar Ashfaq Jaffery & Co, a chartered accountancy firm has revealed that there is PKR 7,000 Billion of “black money” in the real estate sector. If taxed properly, there could be one time wind fall tax collection and recurring thereafter.

3) Negotiation with the Government: Apparently, this will be the desirable and best route forward. FBR is in a strong position and it is expected it will not budge with undue demands. There could be number of suggestion but I would suggest the following:

a) Tax Amnesty: Government has announced tax amnesty schemes a number of times in the past with the recent one for traders just few months back but the response has always been lukewarm. However, here the situation is different wherein noose is around the neck of tax evaders and it will primarily be at their request with only available and acceptable solution. It is expected that FBR will take advantage of the situation and will not offer amnesty at any rate lower than 10% of the amount to be made white. The aforesaid is the rate which FBR has normally used as a benchmark rate for amnesties declared during last few days. The impact of this would be enormous for the economy wherein huge amount of tax will be collected one time and then perennial collection based on the market value. In case we agree with the number quoted by Express Tribune then 10% of PKR 7,000 Billion would translate into PKR 700 Billion tax collection. It is important to mention that the current year collection of FBR was 3,104 Billion and hence it would translate into 22.6% of the tax collection for current year and even FBR would not have any issue in meeting Fiscal Year 2016-17 target, which is fixed at RS 3,621 Billion.

b) Capital Gain: Reducing the holding period from five to three years would be reasonable and acceptable to all the parties. Earlier, it was two years wherein after this period there would not be any liability under capital gains tax.

c) Giving Powers to FBR to Inquire the source of Foreign Remittance: The Protection of Economic Reforms Act 1992 debars FBR to request foreign exchange remitter to disclose the source i.e. who remitted the money and whether that person had the financial health to remit that money. The lack of these powers has in fact caused more damage to the FBR than any other restriction as it has robbed Pakistan of trillion of rupees in terms of tax collection ever since the act came into force. Practically, all sophisticated investors who are fully conversant with legal implication send their untaxed money through ”hawala” abroad and get it remitted to Pakistan statedly at less than 5%. This is a big loop hole in the system and has to be plugged immediately. It is odd to understand that if the remitter is genuine then he should not have any issue if his financial health is probed. But apparently, due to known reasons to everyone in terms of beneficiaries, none of the political government has ever shown willingness to give this power to FBR. In the instant case, if this power is not granted, even if amnesty scheme is declared and implemented, it will not meet set objectives. Just consider, if the rate for amnesty is 10% all sophisticated investors will be inclined to whiten their money at much reduced rate and hence exchequer will be robbed of the requisite revenue.

Conclusively, the changes in tax statute regarding real estate taxation is a blessing in disguise for the overseas Pakistanis who can do transactions with their “white” money freely and without any hassle. However, these measures are a nightmare for “black” money holders and speculative traders who had become used to having unprecedented gains in short time frames. The government and FBR has got a golden opportunity to set things right, and with the assistance of stakeholders, they can come up with a viable solution wherein a tax amnesty can be one of those. However, equally important is to make amendment in Protection of Economic Reforms Act 1992 by giving powers to FBR to probe the source of remittance to distinguish between genuine and “hawala” transactions.


A very well written article by LRE WhatsApp group member Aamir Ali sahib ( Abdal® here). Was shared by him in LRE Gulf group no 53 today. Please share in all groups you are a member .

Habib replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:00 PM PST 

I agree with the Post, Govt Just needed to tweak a little bit DC Rates especially in provinces other than Punjab where the DC rates were 10% of fair market price. But they mishandled the situation very badly at very critical time when real-estate sector was Consolidating its enormous "unhealthy" gains last year.
I see the situation in broader prospective, Less interest in NSC break of Confidence in real estate will result in Following negative Impacts
Foreign remittances will decrease as there is no other options for Overseas investors in Pakistan, This is very important Chunk of Trade balance and can result in fall of Pak rupee Value.

For Local investors, There will Capital Flight from Pakistan as Low interest Injection is Not going to transform in Industry due to Lack of facilities Lack of Market and Multiple hurdles in establishing industry.

The Net Tax revenue will decrease to about 1/3 of last year and Volume of Trade will fall to 1/5 of last year
Real-estate sector will take time to recover.
I Clearly see incompetence of Federal Govt making and implementing these decisions.

Abdal® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:31 PM PST 

@ CMY. Thanks for posting my article on the web. Appreciated.

Would welcome a constructive discussion for my better understanding and for the forum members. Please note that I have purposefully not touched the issue of Valuation of Assets by State Bank and reduction in tax rates which are part and parcel of the matter under consideration and hopefully will take it up in the next article. The solution has to be coherent and equitable covering all the angles as partial solution will be a disaster and will only benefit few.

Abdal® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:43 PM PST 

@ Habib. Not sure but DC rates are issued by provincial governments which may have divergent interests. Like giving compensation for land acquisition etc and may not be interested in bringing it close to the market rate. Secondly, due to globally depressed markets, money laundering laws and terrorism financing it is not that much easy for ordinary Pakistani to take his capital outside the country and have security and return which he enjoys in Pakistan. For already outside Pakistanis apart from Canada there does not seem to be really attractive real estate investment at this point in time and due to globally backlash against muslims, a person with white money would still prefer the home land. FBR and Government strategy to me is to start with big and may be settle in the middle. However, I am still not clear whether the valuation will be implemented across the board or on selective basis. However, I am positive that the eventual settlement would be good for all the stakeholders which includes our beloved country as this confusion cannot be prolonged. However, I hope the solution is a permanent one bringing stability and gradual growth to the market. These are just views which you may totally disagree.

Abdal® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:45 PM PST 

@CMY. Thanks for posting the above article written by me. Appreciated.

Akhtar KSA® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:45 PM PST 

Dear Brother CMY,

Please advise about TAX return & property disclosure for overseas Pakistanis, how to do it and any good TAX consultant may be utilize to file the returns?

Any Brother can also advise about the above please

naveed replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:55 PM PST 

Very good article to kill rumors and to guide and educate investors investing white money

User_11472® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:56 PM PST 

Very good article to kill rumors and to guide and educate investors investing white money

MJM Dammam replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 05:50 PM PST 

@Akhtar KSA - please try:-
Farid Adil Choudhry
Tax Consultant
23-Temple Road, Lahore
Mob. e-mail:

Qamar replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 06:19 PM PST 

A big article just to explain why govt. did this move. But the question is what shall be the impact on sector. Strangely trading with white money is best but at the same time most hurting for gains. If FBR shall remain stick to market valuation for property trade, the whole sector will collapse and white money guys will sit on their white money for years without gain. I am not against the step to white the few hunder billions in real estate but this should be gradually planned at least on 5 years - not a HUGE SUDDEN JERK......

M Arshad Ali® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 08:00 PM PST 

What Govt has done is that it applied an emergency brake on a car running at the speed of 200 km/hr.Although it was necessary to stop the car but unable to understand why emergency brakes applied to stop it.

M Zahid® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 08:48 PM PST 

Those of you who thinks this issue will be resolved in favour of real estate market favour are living in fools paradise. Because this was identified by IMF and is highlighted in IMF 8th review. Here is the excerpt.


"To this end, the Federal Government will encourage provinces to modernize agriculture / real estate taxation and to develop a strategy to identify mis-declarations in this area, and to establish a centralised electronic cadastre to better record transactions and assess real estate tax for each property based on periodically updated market valuation."

This was identified in 8th review October 2015 and now Pakistan is on 11th review. During this period govt was vigorously pursued to implement this which resulted in Finance Bill 2016. FBR market evaluation will not go away but percentage will be played.
Also property market is under the knife and will be sliced periodically to satisfy and guarantee IMF returns as well as govt's tax hunger.

Shahzad replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:03 PM PST 

Who will get benefit from newely proposed tax system,it should be revert back to previous system as it was till June 16 as soon as possible ...nobody will get benefits from this newly imposed huge taxes,in that way buying/selling will be reduced to 25% only compared to last year & tax collection will be quite less than previous year,investors will not earn reasonable profits neither govt will be able to achieve their targets,coming to so called hot topic about recovery of black money,people with black money also already have paid taxes applicable at that time during their buying/sellings,so how does government identify the specific people in huge real Estate market of genuine people as well ..people having black money should be questioned about their source of money before buying not after buying...big money from pakistan will be exported to other countries and offshore companies if it is implemented...
Coming to the solution/suggestions,already people were paying handsome amount on purchase of properties i-e if anyone bought 1 kanal plot in DHA for 150 lacs,almost more then 3 lac were taxes to be paid before buying..
Also tax amount should be on DC rates in private or cooperative socities as these societies buy open land on DC rates and develop the land with their own sources/funds & with collection of development charges from their customers and then there is price appreciation & govt taxes money/funds not used for development in these societies

Coming to the solution/suggestions
1-previous system should be implemented again with some revisions of DC rates

2-just like buyers/sellers pay 1% commission to dealer, flat 2 to 3% or reasonable % tax could be paid to govt

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:48 AM PST 

@Shahzad
You have valid points and good solutions/suggestions.
We all agreed that with the new system in place, the tax collection will be less as buying/selling will be reduced to 25% or even more.
In my opinion, it seems government doesn't mind reduced tax collection. In-fact they want to collect less tax from real estate as compared to they received in previous years. They just want less transactions/discourage people to invest in real estate. The objective seems to shift the investment from real estate to factories, business etc to stimulate the growth. I don't think this idea will work.
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(75116)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:36 AM PST 

Dealers meetingin FBR
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(75115)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:34 AM PST 
A conceptual solution for Mr. Ishaq Dar and for SBP

For Govt. if the problem is for the Black Money that being used in the real state business then the best solution is to pass a rule that all the transactions for the property business should be carried out through banks in the form of pay-order etc and it should be verified at the time of property transfer by keeping a xerox copy. It will not only help SBP to gather fee against pay-orders but will also ensure that the money is now the white money even if it was the black money before. I am saying all this because, no doubt, the huge black money is being used in property business but at least in Pakistan; otherwise all this black money would be diverted to the Foreign countries; hence a great loss for banks and for govt. to generate revenue because tax collection will be very weak in the era of slump. So, at least, a first and last chance should be given to make the black money as a white money.

Govt should believe in the concept of Mutualism not in Parasitism because the so called current decision of Govt. is not even referred to the concept of Commensalism.

Above all, if govt. comes up with a solution something like I shared above then the property trading will be kept continued by the big investors and now their money would be the white money during every transaction. I parallel, the banks and govt. will also keep enjoying the benefits. At last but not least, a tiny investor like me can also make hay when sun shines. Regards.

asad replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:07 AM PST 

well said sir

ShahzadQamar® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 05:41 AM PST 

Not a solution at all. why somebody will carry out bank transaction at market value. Fake low value bank transaction will seal the deal and rest money will be paid by other means. The systematic approach is to increase DC rates at what the property is transferred but Govt does not want to drastically increase DC rates because in that case it shall become highly costly for Govt to purchase land from public for Sharief leage roads as Govt mainly buy on DC rates.

Arif M® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 01:02 PM PST 

In my understanding, majority of transactions are already done via banking mode. I don't understand how it is a solution for gain tax or market evaluation, white money prove etc. Agree with views of Shahzad.

Malik replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:56 PM PST 

The solution is good, if it is implemented by filling up some loop holes. It will help to identify how a filer who shows less income can purcahse costly property. So u catch him and non filer will have to pay bank fee. Payorder system must be the mandatory one without allowing any other option where there is no fee deduction. Now e.g one caror amount through pay order can generate nearly 60000 fee for bank and trading will be kept continued and government will keep enjoying taxes.

Malik14236 replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:57 PM PST 

The solution is good, if it is implemented by filling up some loop holes. It will help to identify how a filer who shows less income can purcahse costly property. So u catch him and non filer will have to pay bank fee. Payorder system must be the mandatory one without allowing any other option where there is no fee deduction. Now e.g one caror amount through pay order can generate nearly 60000 fee for bank and trading will be kept continued and government will keep enjoying taxes.

Ahmed Khan replied on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:26 AM PST 

well personally i feel good as the market will take a dip & will then buy but will it be good as a whole , the answer is No, well right now it is good for buyers as the govt will not listen as they want money from any tom ,dick or harry.This is purely my speculation.
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(75114)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 01:59 AM PST 

Govt have listened /agreed to almost all demands of dealers representatives . A 10 memberGovt team formed to starting work from Wednesday to write all needed amendment in laws asap to correct the problemd and may get approved an amnesty schemes as well.

Choudry Mujahid Yasin ( CMY)
+



Dear friends kindly post share this iimportant mmessage in your WhatsApp groups. Due to high doses of heavy pain killers I dont have energy in me to post in in all 100s groups. Thanks in advance

Kureshi® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:13 AM PST 

Thank you for sharing this good and poaitive news. I have shared with 104 and 177 LRE group and many other friends circles. Pls share updates if any.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:17 AM PST 

لیکن جیو نیوز ۔ آج کامران خان میں اختر عبدالرحمن نے تو کہا ہے کہ تمام سٹیک ہولڈر کا آپس میں ہی اتفاق نہیں تھا اور گورنمنٹ اپنے فیصلے پر برقرار ہے۔ صرف قیمتوں کے تعین پر میٹنگ ہوگی لیکن ٹیکسٹ کی شرح نہیں کم ہونے جارہی۔

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:56 AM PST 

ایک ٹی وی چینل پراپرٹی ٹیکس کی صرف بہت زیادہ پذیرائی کررہا ہے بلکہ ان ٹیکسوں کا سہرا بھی اپنے سر لے رہا ہے۔ ذرا غور طلب بات ہے ہے اس کے پیچھے ان کا کیا مفاد ہے۔ کہیں ان کے مالکان یہ تو نہیں سمجھ رہے کہ اس سیکٹر میں سب سے زیادہ سرمایہ فوجی کا ہے اس لئے ان کو نقصان پہنچایا جائے۔ کہیں کوئی پرانا حساب تو نہیں برابر کیا جارہا ۔ کیا واقعی کوئی ایسا منصوبہ تو نہیں کہ پاکستان کو مقروض بھی کردو اور لوگوں کو مجبور کردوں کہ اپنا سرمایہ باہر لے جائیں ۔آنکھیں کھولنے کا وقت ہے اور پراپرٹی تنظیموں کا ساتھ دینے کا وقت ہے۔ ورنہ سب لٹ جائے گا ۔

HassanHC® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:57 AM PST 

Very good news. Now in next few weeks there will be clear direction and ppl will be able to start sale purchase again.

HassanHC® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:59 AM PST 

ppl want clear direction and certainty , taxes they can absorb with passage of time, But clear direction on LAND VALUE most important. Should be automated process with no human intervention.

ShahzadQamar® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 05:35 AM PST 

as raised by chairman of islamabad real estate association i think the only solution that shall be drafted by FBR is the way properties will be evaluated and the only best option is revised DC rates. I also think that taxes might be absorbed by sector but a huge loop hole of property valuation is not acceptable

Mohammad replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:12 PM PST 

If these new taxes are surprising the previous pathetic rules were hurting too. Overseas Pakistani were making life difficult for people actually looking for homeS. You can not and should not hold plot just for profit where ordinary layman is getting crushed because of you.

I have seen people have made more money in real estate then many year of earning as overseas.

New rules and regulation were very much required .
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(75113)
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 01:45 AM PST 

someone tell governor state bank rates of property in big cities and cheap agriculture land in these countries
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(75111)
Monday, July 18, 2016 10:53 PM PST 
Update on Today Meeting

Plz uprise on today meeting out come

Fakher Khan® replied on Monday, July 18, 2016 11:50 PM PST 

As per news , a 10 members committee has been formed to review/recommend changes in the property tax. The committee to meet on next Wednesday. No further details were revealed in the news.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:14 AM PST 

Committee formed to evalute
prices but no success to reduce taxes. GOVT rejected to reduce taxes so far.

Asad replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:44 AM PST 

Ahmad Hassan pls tell us what is gonna happen next?When will the deadlock be over and things will be back to normal?Kind regards

Arif M® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:44 AM PST 

Next Wednesday? Look like they are in no hurry to resolve this. Committee Committee khel shuru ho gya h. Pakistan ma jis msla ko solve na krna ho us pa committee committee start ho jati h.

Kureshi® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:55 AM PST 

Ahmad were you or any of your close friend was sittong in the meeting on basis of which you sharing this statement or is it your woild guess ? Especially"the govt rejected to reduce the taxes so far" part .

Real Estate is best replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 01:55 AM PST 

kureshi sb go through Ahmad Hassan previous posts, he is here only to spread negative vibes

HassanHC® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 02:56 AM PST 

To All unless you were present in the meeting or have a official handout, refrain from rumours.

CMY has messaged in groups that very positive meeting and government will amend the laws in days.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:05 AM PST 

My source of information is Twitter

Babar Nazar Awan® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:31 PM PST 

thank you all for updating on the subject. Regards

Kureshi® replied on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 03:56 PM PST 

Dear Ahmad , you have been a very valuable contributor on this forum and i have myself learned alot from you. My request is that we share only authentic news. Source of information on twitter , facebook or whatsapp is all the more important. Many overseas and local friends are dependent on this forum for information on this critical matter.
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(75110)
Monday, July 18, 2016 10:10 PM PST 

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(75109)
Monday, July 18, 2016 08:54 PM PST 
1 Kanal Plot in State Life Phase 1

Dear CMY Sir,

I hope you are doing well, Sir i got a 1 Kanal sharing plot at State life phase 1. i need some information are as follows.

1. Its a 1 kanal plot and we are to partners can we become combine owner for the plot?

2. Is it possible if we split 1 kanal between 2 of us ( 10 Marla Each) so we can construct house on it.

3. Currently what is the rate for 1 Kanal Plot in state life phase 1?

I would appreciate your kind advise on above and will be grateful for your timely feedback in this regard.

Best Wishes
MDAR.

Waseem® replied on Monday, July 18, 2016 09:43 PM PST 

For 1st two questions, you have to check with State Life office. They can give you the best answer. The price range is 80-130 lacs depending upon block &
location of plot.

Flex01® replied on Monday, July 18, 2016 10:30 PM PST 

1.the plot can be in both the names

2.I don't think that SL society allows to split 1 kanal into two ,10 marla

3. Since u have bought the the plot , pls share what price u bought or what is the final agreed price

Pls note that reply to 1&2 r based on my knowledge/info. Pls check it from society office as also advised by Waseem.
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