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Ref: Post 84181 - Transferring Money from Overseas,

(103781)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 10:53 AM 

Dear Jameel Sb & others, very informative discussion is going on and thank you and others to explain this matter in detail.

I have a question, Lets suppose if someone have transferred 1 crore Rs to Pakistan in last 3-4 years and since then by doing buying selling activity and by earning profits all investments are doubled by now, How it will look in the eyes of FBR authorities as If he have only proof of remittances of 1 crore whereas now market value is doubled and there is another fact that many times we do not make the legal agreement of buying selling and just do the transfers and do the settlements by Pay order.

Moreover, just confirm if we can get all PRC certificates from Bank Branch itself or need to go to State Bank as I heard from someone that PRC should be applied in State Bank. Further, what if we used to transfer money to some bank account which is closed now.


Thank you in advance.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 04:10 PM 

It is very easy, you can prove that Plot # 1 was purchased with Foreign remittance, and Was Sold in This Much Money [You must have Copy of sale deed,also called full payment receipt on stamp paper. with Pay order Copy which you received from the buying party] and then you can tell my money has been growing Like this, If you did not keep any of these which is near impossible then you can be in trouble. Still You may get in touch with bank to track the pay order transaction.
In case you received major amount by cash then you will in trouble.

Coming to other question till date, FBR is picking random cases they send you a notice and you prove the source of Money, However if you want to be a Filer and declare all your assets then trouble will be solved for ever, Though you will have to update the Filing every year.

The Whole concern at this point is that other than random pick up any new transaction in property will be automatically in the priority of FBI Probe, Both parties will be questioned to prove the source, this will decrease the number of transactions and slow down the business, people will not lose by paying few more lacs of fees but this issue will reverse the price growth. Seller may give only 5 lac Gain tax but get 20 Lac less value of Property though both patties have all white money

Try to understand last papgraph

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 05:42 PM 

Thank you very much for detailed reply. I got your hidden message which you conveyed by putting assumed figures and using the term of fees. That will be much practical and is possible with the mutual understanding of both parties which I believe no one will refuse.
Now lets see one scenario:
- Plot purchased 6 months ago with the price of 1 crore
- DC rate of plot as on is 3,500,000/-
- Market Value as on is 10,000,000/-
If FBR asks for the source there are 3 docs which can be presented
1- Sale Deed OR
2- Pay Order copy OR
3- Bank Statement of issuing the PO in case both above are not available

In above case is there any possibility that we can show less value of purchase price? Like Plot purchased at some price slightly higher than DC RATE? As currently standard practice is that seller is putting more value whereas buyer is putting less value in sale deed to avoid taxation. How it will be successful if one is Filer and other is Non filer. Can both escape tax?
I understand if both are filer then both can be in trouble if verified by FBR, Am I right?

Thanks

KS® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:12 PM 

@Jameel bai
What would you recommend to overseas should they start filing return??
Pros: Less WH Tax;documentation of earnings,wealth
Cons: Potential blackmailing from FBR

KS® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:28 PM 

@Jameel bai
For overseas pakistani what would you advice should they start filing nil return and become filer?

Asif replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:39 PM 

@Jameel Mughal sb,
Appreciate your contribution on this forum.
Referring to middle paragraph of your reply,, does it mean that no questions will be asked for source of income if one become filer today and declares all his assets.

Secondly if I was sending money to my friend's account and was paying by PO from that account to buy property on my name.. will it be considered white money?
Thanks

Asif replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:44 PM 

Correction:
Referring to middle paragraph of your reply,, does it mean that no questions will be asked for source of income(FOR PREVIOUSLY BOUGHT ASSETS) if one become filer today and declares all his assets.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:37 PM 

@ Ks I am seriously thinking of Filing Tax and declaring assets, The Only down side is wealth tax, which is not in practice in Pakistan, It is also not in practice in 70% of the western world usually it is 0.5 to 1 % of Total assets annually, It was in Practice in 90s. Staying in Pakistan it will be quite difficult for retired overseas person to give this Tax. For example net worth is 8 Cror, and 8 Lac Tax cant be paid easily unless you start selling property. However still is not there.
@ Asif If you attach supporting Documents scans there should be no issues but all sorts of Filing is reviewed and approved by FBR officers. It is better you consult some expert for that. There after next year there should no change as you will just updating your file.
If your friend paid pay orders on Your behalf then it is white and can be proved, However a bit of expertise is needed at time of filing.
Best Thing in My account overseas, my account in Pakistan and property in my name.
Adeel khan DC rates at 40 and Property Purchase shown at 60, in Filing is an issue but not "major issue" a different Dept can contact you to pay remaining amount of CVT etc or Not at all if you reach someone in office.
Now onward if DC rate remains in practice I will advise the buyers to make 2 pay orders one exactly same as DC rate and other remaining amount, This will help to Make Documentation easier in Future and you have option to declare 40 lac [DC value]or 60 Lac whatever you like.
Properties pchased in Past FBR cant tell you that shown amont is les sthan Market rate but in future they can.

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 11:18 PM 

Jameel Sb many thanks for detailed explanation on all above.
As you have mentioned about wealth tax, if lets suppose out of 8 crore your house is worth 4 crore for your personal use and you are paying property tax and luxury tax also on that, is that also could possibly be subject to wealth tax alongwith balance part of wealth which is 4 crore.
I agree that this is major concern if such tax is proposed again in future which we never know.
Thanks.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 07:26 AM 

Your House, car or every thing is your assets, However it is possible that bracket start from 2 Cror, However it is Not in Practice in Pakistan so useless to discuss, In the Countries where it was Present, it resulted in Capital Flight having negative impact on economy hence even many western Countries abolished it.
Recently Switzerland reinstated it @ 1% rate after certain limit there is lot of criticism the main victims will be Swiss account holders .

Adeel Khan® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 09:23 AM 

Ok. Thanks
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