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Lahore Real Estate Forum: Property News & Community Talk : ,

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Sunday, July 31, 2016 01:14 PM 

میرے پیارے بھائیوں ۔ میں آپ کی آسانی کے لئے مسئلہ بیان کر دیتا ہوں اور امید کرتا ہوں کہ آپ سب تسلی بخش جواب دیں گے ۔ فرض کر لیتے ہیں کہ ایک پلاٹ کی ایف ۔ بی ۔ آر قیمت پچاس لاکھ روپے ہے۔ اور میں ایک فائلر خریدار ہو۔ میں اس پلاٹ کی اصل قیمت ایک کروڑ ادا کرتا ہوں اور اس کے علاوہ 3 فیصد سٹیمپ ڈیوٹی، 2 فیصد سی وی ٹی ، وید ہولڈنگ ٹیکس اعشاریہ 3 فیصد اور ایڈوانس ٹیکس اور 1 فیصد ایجنٹ فیس اور اوسط سوسائٹی فیس ایک لاکھ کے ساتھ میری کل لاگت ایک کروڑ چھ سے ساتھ لاکھ کے درمیان رہے گی۔یہاں تک معاملہ بہت سیدھا ہے اور سمجھ آتا ہے۔ اصل مسئلہ اب شروع ہوتا ہے۔ ابھی ایک سال کا عرصہ نہیں گزرتا لیکن ضرورت کے تحت میں پلاٹ ایک کروڑ پچیس لاکھ کا بیچ دیتا ہو۔ اب گر میں  ایف ۔ بی ۔ آر قیمت پر رہتا ہوں تو مجھے اعشاریہ 3 فیصد وید ہولڈنگ ٹیکس ، 2 فیصد ایڈوانس ٹیکس اور ایجنٹ فیس اور اگر سوسائٹی کا خرچہ ہے تو کل ایک اور دو لاکھ سے زیادہ نہیں ادا کرنا پڑے گا ۔ سفر کے اخراجات اور نئے پلاٹ کی مٹھائی ملا کر آپ کل لاگت ایک کروڑ دس لاکھ فرض کر سکتے ہو ۔ اور منافع 15 لاکھ۔ کیونکہ پلاٹ میں ایک سال کے  عرصے کے اندر بیچا اس لئے ایف بی آر قیمت بھی نہ بدلی اور میں نے 10 فیصد گین ٹیکس بھی نہ ادا کیا۔ لیکن اب مشکل یہ ہے جو قیمت میں نے پچاس لاکھ سے اوپر حاصل کی وہ بنتی ہے 75 لاکھ۔ جو اصل میں تو حلال تھی مگر اب بن گئی حرام ۔ اور کچھ بعید نہیں ایف بی آر نوٹس بھیج کر اس کا ذریعہ بھی پوچھے۔ اب اگر میں اس کو حلال کرنا چاہتا ہوں تو مجھے اصل فروخت قیمت بتانا پڑے گی اور 75 لاکھ منافع میں سے 7 لاکھ پچاس ہزار ٹیکس ادا کرنا ہوگا ۔ یعنی میرا منافع ہو گیا ایف بی آر کی نظر اور میرے حصے آئی خواری اور مٹھائی ۔ اور اگر میں جائز بات کرتا تو میں شروع سے ہی اصل قیمت خرید ظاہر کرتا۔ اب تھوڑی دیر اور فرض کر لیں کہ میں نے بیچتے وقت اصل قیمت ظاہر کردی کیونکر میں کسی مسئلہ میں نہیں الجھنا چاہتا ۔ اب جو نیا خریدار ہو گا اس کے لئے سب سے پہلے جو مرحلہ درپیش ہوگا اس نے ایک کروڑ پچیس لاکھ کا ذریعہ معاش ثابت کرنا ہو گا ۔ باقی اس پر ٹیکس کس طرح لاگو ہو گے اور نئے سال ایف بی آر اس کو کس طرح قیمتوں کے تعین میں مثال بنائے گا ۔ یہ میں آپ پر چھوڑتا ہوں ۔ ہاں یاد رہے اسحاق ڈار نے قیمتوں کا تعین ایف بی آر کو دیا ہے۔ ان کو سب اندازے تھے ۔ یہ کوئی بچے نہیں تھے۔

Waseem® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 01:54 PM 

Which means the seller will increase its selling price, hence a fair chance that property prices will increase.

Adnan_Ali® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 02:57 PM 

Mostly property Investors are foreign Investors and after all this exercise they faced from government, they will become filer and transfer they remittances in Legal way.
On Signed deal, if they mentioned the actual amount, there is no harm on it because CGT they have to pay according to FBR decided valued as mentioned in scheduled chart so their white money will remain white and when they file annual Tax return, they mention the correct figures and profits.
Its already understood that there is and will be difference in real prices and FBR prices.

Real estate replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 03:04 PM 

Adnan Ali good explanation

User_9325® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 03:08 PM 

yu are inder the assumption that suddenly our FBR has become very competent and will scrutinize every sale deed. Sir this CGT was present before also. have yu ever filed return? or recieved notice from fbr? even if yu recieve, yu will only end up bribing the fbr officer. it will be business as usual. this cgt has always been there but people come to know about it now

Tahir lutfi replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 03:11 PM 

People will consider involvement of FBR as a curse and some type of apprehension and threats
If the taxes would have increased that's were to be absorbed one day or other
However involvement of FBR for investors would be like of police for criminals
Let's hope for the best

Pakistan® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 03:29 PM 

brilliant game by FBR

people have no idea what has happened

MIT® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 03:59 PM 

Very interesting to read a lot of emotional upheavals here like matter of life and death, and as if it is end of the world. Time itself will find due course like a streaming river.

HassanHC® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 04:31 PM 

Nothing is changing in Pak.
Same old FBR
Same old investors
Same old Pakistan real estate with good potential
Yes little more transactional cost
Still cheaper then taxes world over.
London is 28%
India 20 %
Canada 25%

Actually in the end a big deal was made but all got settled with small give and take.

Zahid replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 04:40 PM 

Kindly read this again & again & again. Try to understand why this is relevant to Pakistan.

http://www.dawnnews.tv/news/1041219

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 06:10 PM 

I agreed same FBR, same nation & same country. My these new questions are self explanatory.

Market was silent from last month or no?
Did any one experience such deadlock before ?
Ever this market catch breaking news on media in past?
Did any GOVT invest this much in Lahore?
Who is supposed to pay back cost of infrastructure? Ofcourse us in shape of taxes otherwise Ishaq Dar or NS will pay from pocket. And we should encourage to pay.
Ever Pakistan's external debts crossed 76$ figure?
Do we have enough power and gas for new societies?
Our export reduced 20% or no?
How many new jobs we created in last 5 years? Nill/Nill
Last but not the least, Pakistan is in state of war or no?
Now we all Pakistanies single hobby/ business job. Buy property, sell property and make rich ourselves.
Either we ve pay our taxes honestly and encourage each other too or wait for total collapse as a estate.

HassanHC® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 08:01 PM 

Ahmad Saab well said. Honestly now I will feel less guilty with so much gains as will pay small tax and will contribute to Lahore infrastructure.
Investors from Lahore should definitely not complain as they are getting billions of rupees worth of infrastructure.

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 09:37 PM 

Dear Ahmad Hassan and Hussan HC Sb,

The real issue is not the New Tax Rates, as they would not make much difference as compared to Previous Tax Rates. But the real issue is the confusion among investors regarding additional amount of tax they would have to pay in a single property transaction.

Fortunately, the new agreement with Govt. has cleared the dust, and the situation remained almost the same with just a little more taxes.

But unfortunately, some of us are working hard to maintain and create further confusion. I would request my friends to avoid adding the confusion by presenting inconsistent arguments.

Dear Ahmad Hassan sb, people cannot blamed for:

1. Silence/Deadlock in the Market from last month
2. Pakistan's external debts crossed 76$ figure
3. No power and gas for new societies
4. Export reduced 20%
5. No Jobs Created/Unemployment.

No sane person can deny that he should pay the taxes, but everyone wants that the taxation system should be transparent. But you seem to advocate paying taxes as a penalty for bad governance.

Also, the infrastructure development in Lahore is being done by Punjab Govt, but the New Tax issues are related to the Federal Govt. It means that the new taxes are not supposed to pay the cost of Development in Lahore.

I would suggest you to please think before you write anything in this forum, as such confusing statements may create further confusion in the real estate market, which would be damaging for our economy rather than strengthening it.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 03:31 AM 

Dear Tahir Bahi, that is not true that we are not responsible for all this. In fact we all are responsible. We demand NS to show his assets and source of funds for London apartments, they stripped all Pakistanies with one property tax law. How can we ask him if we all are not agree to pay. Punjab GOVT obtained funds from center as well as they ve direct deals with Turkey & China. All will be pay back by tax payers money. Tahir Bahi you can say my info isn't correct, you can oppose in positive way with logics but you shouldn't blame one of spreading incorrect information. This forum is for discussion. Neither I can raise price nor I can decrease. But not one cannot change reality & reality is Pakistan external debts has crossed $76b(beyond alarming situation) because Pakistan's N weapons are on high risk due to debts, Pakistan is in state of war that cost very high. Too much investment in Lahore only but new job creation zero.
Please don't concider me N league supporter, I am with opposition party:) I am only advocating to be transparent in deals & don't underestimate intentions of FBR.

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 07:09 AM 

Dear Ahmad Hassan Sb, I do not doubt your intentions, but I suggest you to think twice before writing.

How can you give a sweeping statement that "We" (you mean all Pakistanis) do not want pay taxes. The way you are claiming it actually means that nobody in the world wants to pay taxes. People would happily pay taxes if there is transparency in collection as well as use of these taxes.

By blaming us "all" for the miseries of Pakistan, you are actually trying equate law-abiding people to the criminals and fraudulent people.

Please don't try to blur this difference, which can only help the fraudulent people. Its like a Chor who starts saying Chor Chor to hide himself among the innocent people.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 11:39 AM 

بات کڑوی ہے مگر ہے سچ۔ less than 1% persons Pakistanies pay taxes. We all are in same boat.

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 01:18 PM 

There should be direct taxes on actual income, rather than indirect taxes that are imposed on all the people.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 02:23 PM 

طاہر بھائی ۔ Now are agreed on same point. Yes we are giving indirect taxes. May be more than anyother nation in world. We were giving taxes based in DC rate as well. But our system was converting white money to black technically. Now FBR launched new FBR values. If we continue same practice, outcome will be same. In fact this system suits to black sheep's. اور ہمیں ان کو اپنی صفوں سے نکالنا ہے۔. This will be possible when we will all start transparent deals on actual and start mentioning actual buy and selling price & we won't be blackmail.
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