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Lahore Real Estate Forum: Property News & Community Talk : ,

(51515)
Sunday, February 15, 2009 07:56 PM 

I request people to invest in projects rather than open lands. In many countries of the world open lands are almost free, provided by the state to the citizens for commercial or residential use. It's the cost of materials, labor etc that's the actual cost of the house. If you notice, labor and materials are many times cheaper in Pakistan yet house prices are more than most countries. It's because more than 60% of the cost is the price of the land! So what's wrong with this? Well, it shows that we can afford to pay millions for open lands (our country is 8lacs sq. kms. there's no shortage of open lands) but we cannot pay good salaries to labor or employees. We buy the best most expensive Burma Teak wood but haggle over petty sums with the carpenter.

In other countries where labor salaries are high, it contributes positively to the social and economic fabric of the country. People are more or less of equal standards, unlike Pakistan where salary difference between low and high skill jobs is several hundred times! This in turn promotes elitism and the love of elitism, the real disease we are inflicted with.

The reason why the tradition of "investing" in open lands as if they are bonds is flourishing in our country is because it's the easiest quickest way to become rich for bureaucrats and politicians. That's why they deliberately create an artificial shortage and deliberately let the practice of false documents and frauds by patwaris continue. Thus, they make a few societies like DHA where documents cannot be faked which in turn forces people to be blackmailed into buy these properties, or become hostage to private developers, or paying Rs.5000 as processing fees for ballots, because they are deliberately left with no other option. Ethically speaking, private developers do not have the right to develop entire cities and towns. That way, they will be in control of a lot of people and their lives. The state is responsible for providing such resources to the citizens.

Many people have even regretted why they worked so hard all their lives and worked, set up factories, provided jobs, etc., when all they had to do was to buy some lands and go to sleep and would have been better off!

A.M.BUTT (Qatar) replied on Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:46 PM 

Ali3,

I have propsal regarding your idea that we should invest money in project rather than open land. Mr Mujahid Yasin is the the right person who can orginize a group of people to invest jointly in one project initially. property buisiness is also a industry and that is why Lahore real estate has proven,I have visited my self in Lahore and specially in DHA Lahore and DHA Office .I met Mr M.Yasin and other persons in the office last moth,I have visted in his office in 2006. Any way We can start a small project of Rs. fifty milions with group of 20 people.If any of my friend agree with me no metter who will the orginizer. i have four other friends to share 10 milions. Let us thing and decide. I am inviting my friends in oversease to join this move.I am sure we will get the granty of our investment.I am requesting Mr Mujahid Yasin to think and give us responce positively.
M.Yousaf saib! please go head to comment.

Hamid,Toronto replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 01:48 AM 

I intend to agree with A.M. Butt proposal. Yes we can invest in project instead of open land. Please account me in the potential candidates list. I would suggest the following preliminary pre-requisites for this project:

- Proper home work need to be done
- Proper legal work need to be done
- We can use share based concept of ownership

Project could be an IT park or plaza. Just a thought!

Mohammad Yousaf replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 04:11 AM 

I have placed this idea some time before the real-estate big bang!

Had we adopted that idea in those times, things would have been different by this time and we, the expats, would be sitting in our offices in our beloved country, doing our own businesses rather than getting stuck up in US & Europeans winters and in gulf murderous summers.
I fully agree to Mr. Butt’s idea and registering, here, my unconditional trust in CMY and his brothers, regarding a syndicate type business joint venture, worked out and made to be, on par with all the legalities and procedural requirements.

I might be able to offer a handsome amount to this venture and can convince my friends to come forward and participate.

Abdul Hadi Shah replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 05:03 AM 

Dear Mohammad Yousaf sahib,

Please drop me e mail at

I have moved back to Abu Dhabi

Kind Regards
Abdul Hadi Shah

Ali3 replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 05:55 AM 

WOW! Thanks for positive response. I was so fearful when i was writing my post. In the past whenever I've written against elitism I've been called "Hindu agent", "CIA agent", "Jewish agent", etc. Mind you, in the western countries they too got rid of the menace of elitism through bloody revolutions, and that's why today they are truly free today.

Mr. A.M.Butt, my brother is in Qatar, he's an International SAP Consultant. If you write to me on i can give you his email address or phone number. He was telling me about some projects, he often has new ideas. But i don't have the finances to invest.

I've worked with international companies like HENKEL (Germany) as Project Director and other foreign companies. These days I'm looking for a job. I think plaza is a good idea. Also corporate farming. That way the Pakistani produce will remain in Pakistan. I've heard companies and even foreign governments want to start this project in Pakistan, or maybe have already started. They want to secure their future food.

Another advantage of project farming is that since mostly overseas Pakistanis will be in charge, the village agricultural workers will be treated like humans, more equally than they presently are by the landlords. Even their women and children are kept as slaves in many cases, when the labor cannot pay back usury on small amounts.

Another project can be a high profile university or school system. Yesterday i went to a job interview at an educational institute and was surprised that there was not even walking space inside the campus, there were so many students. I inquired about the courses and was told classes for each batch are held only twice a week! Imagine how many students must be enrolled in that institute!

Please forgive me for mentioning this here, again I'm afraid of being criticized, but if anybody is looking for a manager, i can give very good credible references, even International references, like from people in USA, Canada, Germany, etc. Those people know me personally and will vouch for my honesty, hard work, etc. Sorry, it seems as if I'm trying to be greedy here, but please understand that everybody has a family, kids, school fees etc. The problem with me is that i am very very weak in office politics, and no matter how hard i try, i cant win. That's why I've always preferred to work for foreign companies in the past.


sbaig replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 07:13 AM 

I am 'in' with full heart. My email:

Anwer replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 09:57 AM 

This is a great discussion and great idea. I wish we could always think like this and do something positive and constructive. I would also love to join such such a project.


CMY replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 11:25 AM 

I have been doing some research in this regard. I will try my best to share my views after reading more comments from many learned readers here.

SOSI, KSA replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 01:40 PM 

Dear Pakistani Brothers,

SALAM,

We suggested CMY (Trustworthy person)sometime ago to start Construction Business as we all (overseas) are worried about the contractors etc. but no luck.

As he is now motivated to do something for us and currently doing research too.

I have started a small IT business in Pakistan by giving shares to the developers just to keep them motivated. Starting a business needs lots of research work, efforts, and finance.

My suggestions are as follows:

CMY to allocate a pre-operation admin team (I vote for Ali3 to head the team) for this business.

We all will send him our CV with latest NIC/Passport/Visa etc copies.

The team shall register all of us in his records as shareholders.

Website with secure login (The team to have expert IT professional)

We all make sure to meet the team in our next visit to Pakistan to share our ideas.

New bank account in the name of (I suggest "PAK AMANAH Joint Stock Company") this business to be opened.

We should start depositing say RS 5,000/month/head to cover the new setup pre-operating cost.

After few months of meetings as suggested above, CV reviews, and mutual understanding of the shareholders, Board of Directors to be appointed, Chairman of the Board to be appointed, aother special teams to be setup. etc.

Rest on the Board to lead in all aspects of business with the consent of Shareholders.

May Allah Succeed us in our Goals.

Regards,

CDW replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 02:11 PM 

I'm in!

Corporate Farming & Educational Project sounds feasible, and need of the hour. Sure, there is potential in both of the above. It's smart that we take the intiative and do it. If we don't do it, foreign investors will sure take all the yield.

+

Hamid,Toronto replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 02:51 PM 

My email address is

Zia Mian replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 02:52 PM 

I wish our country had more people of same thinking as Br. Ali.I second what Mr. CDW has opined for he reason that investment in Corporate farming or Education will be a productive investment rather than construction of plaza which is a dead investment & does no good to the country.

Laeeq - replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 03:21 PM 

Salam 2 All,

Well i am a silent visitor of this blog ... Since i bought couple of plots in DHA so in order to keep myself updated i usually visit this site daily.

Well today i just saw some discussion going regarding investments on IT business rather than Property. And after seeing so many positive response i thought to get register today. So here i am

Well i just want to share I have an experience of approximately 5 years and worked in some well reputed organization in Pakistan inc Telcos. In the end of 2006 we all friends thought to do our IT business privately. We thought it would be a very easy job for us. Since we all were IT professional with all the skills required. So we bought a place in I 10 and thought to have our meetings there. But what happened afterwards was terrible. We bought the place. We bought all the equipment. But when it comes to work ... it never happened. It is not becoz of lack of interest. But in reality what we actually think is very difficult to achieve. In such type of business their are several problems. You cant do it with someother job also going on side by side.

I thought to just share my experience :). It was never meant to discourage you all. What you all are thinking is excellent. Hope you all succeed in your endevours Ameen ...

Regards,

Mohammad Yousaf replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 03:35 PM 

Apart from a food related business, I would suggest working on the “Mechanized Brick factory”.

Brick demand in Pakistan would keep going and a factory utilizing no manual labor but only machines will sure get a good business. We need so many types of bricks in Pakistan, the ones which are used in making pavements, house construction, the siding bricks used on house fronts, then other types used in car porches, so on and so forth and producing all this without having the traditional and cruel system of child labor. There is a huge demand in gulf of, for instance, the pavement bricks.

Running an educational cum professional institution, is also a brilliant idea, we can work with.
Building a multi-story plaza ,only ,for car parking in a business place and providing a fool proof security for the parked vehicles, could also prove a very lucrative and a Halal source of income on monthly basis.
If we make a 5 story parking plaza and accommodate 100 cars on each floor, getting Rs. 2,000 per month from the car owners, we can have a guaranteed income of at least Rs. 10 lacs per month?
I think this plaza could easily be built, including land price, at Rs. 10 Crores and can have a return of more than 12 per cent guaranteed and all Halal money.

Irf Qatar replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 03:57 PM 

Good to see productive descision going, keep in me here ismy email id ,
I have 13 plus years business and finance experience worked with westerns and have learned some good things about business from them

Mrs. R.S replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 04:48 PM 

I hope this discussion will take a serious turn.
My suggestion would be,investment in agriculture sector. Considering the national and the world wide food crisis one can contribute a lot to our people and by exporting to this world also. We need to introduce modern technology in agri farming where our brothers abroad can help. Government has also revised its policy of neglect towards agriculture and therefore a lot of incentives to the growers. Some one with agricultural land to volunteer. one can grow many herbs and flowers which are cheap here and after some processing and dry packing one can make good profit in the local as well international markets.

s.yousaf, dk replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 06:16 PM 

salam to all

I think the idea of mechanical brick factory suggested by mr m.yousaf sahib was brilliant...infact i would suggest manufacturing of any kind of modern/western construction material would be a good idea...im not expert in construction field.. so i would like experts on this forum to throw some light on what of materiels mentioned below are made in pakistan or are possible


insulation material (rockwool)
ready made insulated windows & frames - the type used in west (and those advertised in dha homes, are they really not made in pk..
mechanically made bricks
mecanically readymade plywooddoors & frames (like we can buy in west..i know its not the best qualitatively but will be more affordable)
more suggestion would be great...


when i suggest manufacturing of these material the intension should also be providence of it in good standards and affordable prices not as if you are importing

regards


in my opinion it is also importent to construct energy saving houses/buildings and it should be introduced also to commen man

C93C684 replied on Monday, February 16, 2009 07:14 PM 

Aoa,

Applause for Mr. Ali3 for starting a progressive discussion topic.
Please consider me a potential participant, too.
In my opinion, keeping in view the current energy crisis in pakistan, small wind mills power generation unints can be good idea at community levels using cooperative model.
I m from QDATAR and can be approached by email id.:

A.M.BUTT (majeed_ajk@hotm replied on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:05 AM 

AOA,

Please come forword with the name and amount who ready to join the group of investors after that we will suggest the kind and nature of project (even the name group) according to the budget.2nd thing let CMY to Complete his research but again no body comment on the starting budget. Itis not possible to do research without the size of budget(it look like every body agree on 50 milions and i sujjest 20 members with 2.5 milon share. If not "Please discuss these three issues to deside the project" (we will start discussion after these points).

Best Regards to all mebers

Owais replied on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 03:07 AM 

Dear all,

It is excellent and very useful discusson.We really need to do some thing which will help our countrymen and in return,we too will get our halal share.We know,there are many learned and influential countrymen on this web site who are full of potential and it is time,we make use of them.

Let CMY and Mr. Naveed Yasin take the lead in floating a Holding Company which would have its equity in the forthcoming businesses.We could also consider making JVs with reputed groups like Habib Rafiq/DESCON/MCB etc etc .They could be major stake holder and this way,we wil learn from their contacts and business expertise.
I am keen to particapte and may be contacted at

We pray for the best.

S Irfan replied on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 08:33 AM 

There is real shortage for storing grains and other crops.A network of grain storage facilties would be good idea.

Imran Elahi replied on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 09:32 PM 

Ali3 and Hamid, Toronto. I am dropping you both an email. I am starting up my IT solutions business here in lahore, pakistan.

After having read this thread, i feel we can co operate and work something out.
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