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Congratulations to all Pakistani brothers and sisiters,

(55781)
   CMY
Monday, November 23, 2009 09:06 PM 
Reply: >
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Monday formally joined the international community of fighter aircraft manufacturers as JF- 17 Thunder, the first ever multi-role state of the art fighter jet, rolled out of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra and was included to the fleet of Pakistan Air Force.
Ah! proud Pakistani replied on Monday, November 23, 2009 09:27 PM 

I am a proud Pakistani but ashamed of the fact that my own army is killing their own brohters on their friends words
aa replied on Monday, November 23, 2009 10:29 PM 

i was very happy on above news but this really made my day...

http://www.geo.tv//53497.htm

plus: ah! proud pakistani we wont kill our brothern (half of them from uzbekistan) if they limited them selves to kabul, but we we cannot hand over islamabad to them...period. thanks
Hamid, Toronto replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 01:19 AM 

Totally agree with aa! We are not "tekadaar" for the whole world Jihad.

Congratulation to all Pakistani brothers and sisters on this historical moment of our defence history.
Hard Facts replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 03:21 AM 

my friends, this is not made in pakistan, u can say its only assembled in pakistan...............
its engine is 100% made in russia; and india already objected russia about providing the same engines to pakistan/china which were provided to india. it took a year or more for russia to assure india that technology is somewhat different.
paf kamra basically is a service station cum workshop for aircrafts. no doubt some good work is being done by them but no one has the right to misguide the general public.
just imagine on one side u cannot make engine of a 70cc motorcyle, how come u r claiming to manufacture JF-17.
ua replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 04:34 AM 

Hard Facts bhai, even if it is all assembled in Pakistan, it is still a great step forward than buying completely built units from other countries.

Bhai, kabhee to hum logon ko khush ho lainay dia karain...
AD replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 05:39 AM 

No doubt that it’s a great milestone achieved by the nation. Even if it is not fully manufactured in Pakistan but it is a big step towards achieving this.

However, I must also say this that lots of aircrafts, huge army, modern weaponry including nuclear arsenals could not save USSR to collapse. And the reason most of the first world countries (UK, Canada, Australia, Scandinavian Countries, and most of the EU countries) excelling (and are the favourite destination of most of the Pakistanis to migrate to) is the Social Justice and the High Level of Moral Standards, and The Law which is equal for everyone. And the irony is that ‘They’ adopted this from Islamic teachings and ‘We’ being a so-called ‘Islamic Republic’ are at the bottom of the list of souverign, prosper, peaceful states and on the top of the corrupt and failing states!

Till the time we achieve that above-mentioned characteristics, there is no gurarantee that JF-17 or F-16 or the ‘big liability’ so-called nuclear power will save us.

If “The NRO Unlimited Regime” and others like this keep holding the highest positions in Pakistan, we will remain at the bottom of the goods and keep topping the lists of the bads.

It’s that simple!

.
Hard Facts replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 06:04 AM 

dear 'ua' i agree with u,.... no doubt something is better than nothing!

i 110% agree with mr 'AD'............
Ahmad replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 08:05 AM 

History, of this development tells tale of hurdles and support this project came through.
Musharraf govt. provided all the finances and support required and final prototype was flying in a time period as short as 5 years, in 2006 first production aircraft flew on 23rd march.
Kamara factory structure was complete and machines of production line were in Kamra in 2007 but than new govt. slashed funds for its development and unfortunately this marvelous project hit delays.
At this juncture ex-PAF chief took personal interest and requested private investors in China to provide funds, which helped in commissioning of plant and to pay the salaries of production staff.
Later ex-PAF chief was retired, without getting any extension, despite the fact that all the development time he was the chief of PAF. Principally, he should have remained Chief until this day. (this is my personal managerial opinion)
Apart from the technical success this project is an economical hit and i don't understand the mentality behind the concept to put such project on low priority and adding red tapes to its progress.
It was vision of P. Musharraf and hard work of PAF where as politicians of following govt. tried there best to fail it.

Any how for the record, this development is new addition to already existing list of engineering successes of Pakistan defence forces over whole of India's might.
Today, India is forced to spend billions on foreign defence purchase while Pakistan defence forces earn billions by exporting there produce to foreign countries. There is no such example in the whole world.
Jawans of Pakistan Armed forces Zindabad.
Pakistan Zindabad.
Down with anti Pakistan elements.
BB replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 09:46 AM 

As far as russian engines are concerned they are upgraded mig 29 engines called rd93. They r supposed to b good but will b replaced in near future with Chinese ws13. Air craft will evolve in time and has enormous potential including potential stealth upgrades. Some pictures r already circulating on net..
usman rwp replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:05 PM 

I agree with brother Hard Facts. Since the creation of Pakistan army generals have looted money through defense contracts/etc with no emphasis on indigenous production/transfer of technology(TOT).Projects like JF aircrafts and building tanks like Alkhalid/Alzarar are actually eye wash for the general public.
pervaiz musharaf was a traitor,and in his time corruption and favoritism within army increased to a tremendous/highest level.Although he has escaped but corrupt officers he promoted/placed are still here.
I have regards for previous air chief as he was the one who flew Pakistani aircrafts after indian acs crossed the borders and chased them back, after mumbai attack.(think this was the reason he was sacked).
another proud pakistani replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 01:26 PM 

dear proud pakistani, plz dont be too ashamed because army is killing only those 'own brothers' who are killing their 'own brothers'. besides that army is following civilian govt orders so even if there any fault that is in govt's policy, not in army's implementation. they are actually sacrificing their lives.
Ahmad replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 02:11 PM 

Dear Usman, surprisingly no proof of your claim exist.
Infact, blaming generals is an attempt to shift the focus from the corrupt civil administration and politicians nexus for which we do not need any proof.
All civil contracts are open evidence of corruption. It is not difficult to point out compromises on contractual obligations.
usman rwp replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 03:22 PM 

Dear Ahmad,only few years back i was serving with the same people ,was posted at a place where i saw it all ,(one of the reason i quited army).
Brother no one is saying politicians are better they are more corrupt and also stupid,these generals are wise so never caught.
usman rwp replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 03:33 PM 

I have lot of regards for Pakistan army soldiers and junior officers who have lost their LIVES for PAKISTAN but have more sympathies for pushtoon families and small kids .
aa replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 03:34 PM 

usman rwp although there has been some corruption in top levels of military, fact is pakistan has made far more progress in defence sector than any other sector of economy. infact today from submarines to ships, small arms to rockets, tanks, armoured vehicles,nukes, missiles, now 4th generation fighter air crafts are being produced here.
indians import all these and their last years bill was 30 billion dollars. indians are yet to produce a working tank, armored vehicle, aircraft, lagging behind in small arms production. doubt exists on there nuclear status. 1998 tests were not a complete success. just yesterday their prime missile ended up in a different ocean from the targetted one....if we dont make it, we will have to buy it like indians...
yes there are good people and bad people in military as in civil society,,, far more can be achieved both in defence and on economic front...
pakistan has a great potential, we are waisting so much of it both in economic front and on military front due to corruption.. this will have to change soon if we want to survive.. but every thing is not a eye wash, especially projects like jf alkhalid, alzarar, they have kept both india and america and israel out of our borders for past eight years and counting...they have freed us from effects of military sanctions. now we dont care if america delivers f16 or not.. they are pretty good...
by the way it was not the previous air chief but the current one who ordered fighter to air after mumbai attacks last year...do keep in touch with reality..
usman rwp replied on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 05:41 PM 

Dear aaa i was trained in army as expert in these fields ie military equipment/contracting etc ,.Would not like to open such a discussion in this forum,however if you like can have coffee together and some gupshup
,can surely address your misconceptions.
It was a brave action which airforce/air chief did,i thought he would surely be sacked.sorry for not being updated.
There is more corruption than what you think/believe.If you are also patriotic i hav regards for you, but plz dont snub others.
Regards
usman rwp
pareshan rwp replied on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 04:16 AM 

@ usman rwp <<<<<<<<<Dear Ahmad,only few years back i was serving with the same people ,was posted at a place where i saw it all ,(one of the reason i quited army).>>>>>>>>>

You dont sound like someone trained from PMA, or a real fauji, as I know a lot of them. Were you a commisioned officer? If you were, which I seriously doubt, were you fired for some misconduct, or you just <<"QUITED">> as you mentioned, yourself because your boss in Army was corrupt? Most Armed personnel I know are extremely proud of their organization. If you were a commsioned officer, and are not disgruntled for being fired from your job, I would be extremely surprised for an Army officer to possess your views & mentality. If you ever tried to get in the army and flunked the ISSB, or were a canteen THEKEDAR, that dont count, as experience from army and an expert on the subjects you mentioned. Your thinking and vocabulory donot reflect that of a commsioned army officer, but surely a frustrated person that probably tried his best to get ahead in life but failed miserably for maybe no fault of your own, and now everyone else including the army is the culprit. Sorry for being a little harsh, as I coudl be wrong too, but you dont fit the FAUJI profile.
usman rwp replied on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:44 AM 

ONLY for mr pareshn rwp.i am third generation in army passed out from PMA .Another reason i QUITED was that Pakistan army had started enrolling cadets/officers without considering their caste/family back ground(although it is not permitted in Islam,but experience tells blood do matter).
you also surely seems to be either serving or retired from Pakistan Army,it would have been better if you had continued your family buisness ie Mochi/repairing of chapals, atleast you would not have been proud of serving under traitor general mussaraf.
Regards usman
FR Canda replied on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 02:42 PM 

usman rwp--Hw much money you took from Nawaz Sharif to write/speak against Musharraf? or are you Nawaz Sharif under the cover of usman rwp?
He has single point agenda just to take revenge of his insult and nothing else.
Please donot use abusive language against army generals as they are far better than Nawaz Sharif ,Asif Zardari and Altaf
mochi replied on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 03:14 PM 

USman rwp -bhai why you are against of mochi? Did any mochi refuse to repair your--------chapals?
pareshan rwp replied on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 05:49 PM 

# 2 Fauji,
Niether me or my parents are serving or retired fauji, but your demeanor is not that of one, as I know a lot of them. This surely does not mean that Faujis are the smartest people of all, but you surely are not one of them. And you did not <<<<"QUITTED">>>> army. If someone is a Mochi, and they are good at what they do, then they deserve appreciation for being good and loyal wirh their profession. Your third generation does not seem to be passed out of PMA for sure, maybe from somewhere else. Then you go on bragging about being an expert in certain fields. Even if you were a fauji, those expertise come in at a lot higher level, and beleive me, if you were on that level, you would not be discussing real estate on this forum. Now dont come back saying you are a general with so many stars hanging somewehere. All I can say is, GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK, and move on. Lets talk about your expertise in real Estate, if you have any. That would make more sense here on this forum, rather than blowing a lot of hot air.
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