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Thursday, December 3, 2009 01:05 PM 

Dear colleagues,

I have saved Rs. 5 Million by living abroad and now settled in Lahore. I do not want to invest in property as it is not for long term investment. I do not have also experience of any business and cannot take any risk. I do not want to put this amount in NSS or in conventional bank to get fixed monthly income as it is also not halal income.
I am looking an Islamic Bank where to invest this amount (5 yrs )to get monthly income for the domestic requirements. Can the concerned knowledgable persons suggest which Islamic Bank is giving good monthly return and under which scheme from where regular income could be arranged.
Thanks for your cooperation and reply.

Shahzad replied on Thursday, December 3, 2009 02:56 PM 

Dear Amer,

My understanding (I am not a scholar) is that RISK makes the return on investment halal. For example when you invest and there is a chance of Gain or Loss, your gains are halal and your losses are halal. If one gives you fixed return (even if it is name is Islamic Bank) that return is nothing different from any other bank.

All the best with your research in this regard!

Jameel replied on Thursday, December 3, 2009 03:20 PM 

Risk does not Make Halal see all verses of Quarn about Riba, It is all about stopping you from exploitation and persuading you to help poor individuals. if Risk is hala the gambling/ Stocks are most Halal rizks. This this mis concept in many people's mind. I think NSS schemes are not haram as it is clearly mentioned in Quran that you have right to take back equal to what you paid. Due to inflation rupee is Losing its value about 20% per year. No NSS scheme gives equal to that.
There are clear examples in Islamic history. When a borrower had to pay back 1050 Coins in place of 1000 Coins. Because new Coins were infect smaller in size.{inflation is not new thing]. Unfortunately we can never move one inch to devise any system due to radical people.

This just my opinion you spend your time and find the way

A.M.BUTT (DOHA QATAR) replied on Thursday, December 3, 2009 05:45 PM 

Amer Saib,

purchase one house in B OR C Type area in Lahore and give on rent you can get twenty thousands to twenty five thousands per month.

If you want to ask the area and society please write your e.mail address.are any contact than i can help you

Melbourne replied on Thursday, December 3, 2009 09:50 PM 

that 5 Million is halal, if yes go back and make more business people in Pakistan are loaded with money. Renting a house in Pakistan most rsiky investment you can do like unpaid bills at the end if the lease, late payments, no payments, if the tanent hands are longer than yours its a dead end.
Islamic and bank are two opposite things! Both don't mix.

Amer replied on Friday, December 4, 2009 06:18 AM 

The proper reply is not yet given. In NSS and Banks the profit is fixed but in Islamic Banking every month amount is paid with difference less or more. I asked if someone has made an investment in any Islamic Bank and getting monthly return. Some people say that NSS is not hahal but some say Halal, so not yet clear. If it is halal then may be it is better option than bank.
The house on rent is not good as I have bad experience. I gave my house in Islamabad on rent and the tenant gave half portion to other tenant with high rent and he was living free. Besides, spent lot of money for its wear and tear, so finally sold out.
I want something in return on monthly basis after depositing 5 Mio purely on Islamic way and not fixed income. Your comments pls.
Regards

ua replied on Friday, December 4, 2009 07:35 AM 

Amer bhai, in Islamic banks, best rates are being offered by Meezan Bank and Dawood Islamic Bank. You can invest in 7-year MAC with Meezan Bank of 1-year deposit with Dawood Islamic bank. Last month's profit rates were close to 13% for both...

Amer replied on Friday, December 4, 2009 12:26 PM 

ua Bhai thanks for providing the information and will look now MAC in Meezan Bank as there is no Dawood Bank near Johar Town while Meezan is there.

limo replied on Friday, December 4, 2009 03:35 PM 

@Amer
Your pure intention to have money free of even slightest amalgamation of interest is praiseworthy and Allah SWT will surely guide you in your humble pursuit of halal rizk.I am not a scholar but know a little about this curse "interest" based upon my study. Whatever money you get in the form of a fixed percentage from wherever, is plainly "interest".Most of the saving schemes, banks, post offices offer a fixed percentage against the amount deposited, hence fall in "interest" category.I have great respect for Mr.Jameel as he is a useful contributor to this forum but extremely disappointed to see his views about this curse.Dear Jameel, i agree money devauation continues as does inflation, but don't you think these banks and saving schemes ought to adjust the profit percentage exactly in accordance with the pecentage devaluation of the money rather than giving a fixed percentage.Had it been so, your point would have been well understood and proved logical in favor of taking this what you call a fixed percentage of profit. Secondly yes money deposityed or invested has to be at risk, none of the businesses as far as i know is risk free.Thirdly, no body says that investing in shares is haram, but investing in those shares which companies do unislamic business or do it in unislamic ways. Dear pork never becomes halal in the absence of meat, if "radicals" could not devise a system, does not mean at all that this curse stands legitimate.

MAS replied on Saturday, December 5, 2009 05:00 AM 

Dear Limo your explanation is very logical and enlightening, however I have heard Ghamdi sahib speak on this topic on TV in slightly different tone. He said that very poor retired people may use the services of National Savings (only as majboori) in the hope that Allah will forgive them. He felt that people should try their best to avoid it. He did not call it halal either. What do you think about that?

It is good to know that Meezan offers an alternative with possibly 13% profit.

Ahsan Mahmood replied on Saturday, December 5, 2009 06:17 AM 

Assalam-o-Alaikum
I wont comment on the actual topic but need to clarify one thing that before referencing anybody one should use extreme precautions. Mr Ghamdi is just as a kind of a person who has his own views for almost every act of Islam and somehow his PERSONAL views could lead someone to go astray or I would say that he has his own Islam as most of the other muslims have today according to their desires.
May ALLAH SWT guide us to the path of Quran and Sunnah of RASOOL ALLAH SAW.
Pray for Ummah
JazakALLAH khair

Islamic Fatwa replied on Saturday, December 5, 2009 05:06 PM 

Where should he deposit his money in these times when riba is so widespread?
Where should I deposit my money in an age when people have become so negligent and the banks are dubious because of riba, and we have no Islamic banks and keeping the money at home is not safe? I want to deposit my money in a place that is permissible, without committing any sin. And I want to invest it and pay zakaah on it, otherwise it will get used up and the amount of zakaah will be reduced.



Praise be to Allaah.

Depositing one’s money in a riba-based bank helps the bank to deal in riba; this applies even if you do not get any interest on your deposit.

If you do get interest, this is the riba that is forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who consumes riba and the one who gives it.

Whoever has wealth that he wants to save or invest should look for a permissible way of doing so. He may give the money to a trustworthy man to do business with it for him, and they can share the profit in whatever manner they agree upon.

If he cannot find any way to save it other than depositing it in the bank, then there is no sin in that if it is done out of necessity, so long as that does not involve any interest.

He should choose the least evil of the banks, and the one that is closest to the way of dealing that is prescribed in sharee’ah.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

With regard to depositing money in bank accounts that pay interest monthly or annually, this is a kind of riba that is forbidden according to scholarly consensus. With regard to depositing it without interest, it is better not to do that except in cases of necessity if the bank deals with interest, because depositing money with the bank, even if no interest is paid, helps the bank to engage in its riba-based transactions, so there is the fear that the one who does this may come under the heading of those who help others in sin and transgression, even if he does not intend to do so. We must beware of that which Allaah has forbidden and look for sound ways of preserving and disposing of wealth. May Allaah help the Muslims to do that which will lead to their happiness and victory and salvation. May He help them to quickly establish Islamic banks that are free of riba, for He is Able to do that. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.

Fataawa Ibn Baaz, 4/30, 311

See also question no. 22392

And Allaah knows best.



Islam Q&A

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/49677/islamic%20banks%20profit

Hamid, Toronto replied on Monday, December 7, 2009 12:39 AM 

Totally agree with Jameel. You cannot win with Radical people. I dont understand why some people love to lecture on Islam's teaching without knowing the real spirit of Islam.

May Allah give them sense to choose the right and logical path!

Hope I am NOT opening a cane of worms here.
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