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Advice Needed,

(77858)
Friday, April 19, 2013 09:34 AM 

Dear friends,

I am putting my case here and want you to share whether by doing so, am I committing something that goes against my religion, like not doing "tawakkalAllah".
I am an engineer working in Saudi Arabia these days. I applied for Canadian immigration two years back because of the following:
1. We can be asked to leave any moment in coming years because of the rapid saudization policy.
2. There is hardly any chance that overall situation of my country will improve in the coming times.
Please note that i took my decision only as a "tadbeer" that we can do and should do foreseeing the adversities or eventualities that we might confront in future.

Admin, pls allow it as it in in context to our country's present situation and as a result majority of people fleeing to other countries.

Thanks

WC replied on Friday, April 19, 2013 03:03 PM 

Dear Omil,

I have stayed in the UAE for more than seven years, Saudization can't be worse than Emiratization that has started in the UAE. I had doezen of amazing offers from US & Canada to permanently migrate with family. When our parents grow old they need us, but fact is they want us to be happy the way we are and where ever geo location we reside in, but deep down they always want their children to be with them... which is a big moral support and we as children badly fail to understand.

We make our assets by serving abroad as 3rd grade citizens and by doing so we forget our real assets, "Our Parents, Our Families" who always are looking forward for us to return to them. Definition of our assets is wrong. Real Asset is our Parents. Purpose of telling you all this is, that I came back from them and living in the same country that belongs to us and about which in your words i see is hopeless.

If all of us instead of coming back to this country vote for the right people keep on cribbing without playing our roles. I guarantee you... you and I deserve to be hopeless. Coz we're not playing our role. I came back to Vote for the right people and I came back to choose the future of my country. But i came back, Alhumdullilah living and working here... got best job.. .and have dinner with my family my parents everyday... i serve them and making my assets which are going to help me in the real world... the world here after :)

I recommend, its not that bad,, i am so happy to have taken this decision and same is what I will recommend you.

Where there is will, there is way.

Would appreciate the admin if he allows this post for Mr Omli to read through. Thanks

Allah ka banda replied on Friday, April 19, 2013 03:04 PM 

My dear brother, being religious is good, but shoving religion into everything is over reacting. Allah SWT has not condemned anyone to one place, the whole world is for you, move as you please. Immigration to Canada or any other place is your choice, what is the rubbish about tadbeer, you are an independent human being, do as you please. You will be no less Muslim in Canada than you are in Saudi, your religion is in you, not the country, your belief is between you and your Allah. If you want to be a good human and a good Muslim, there is nothing in canada that will stop you from doing that. And since you live in Saudi, you should know better that Saudis are some of the worst human beings on the planet. I live in Bahrain and know Saudi in and out. Contrary to what many Paksitanis believe, living in Pakistan versus living in Canada has nothing to do with religious beliefs, it is a choice that one has to make to suit his own life. So dont kill yourself thinking its a sin to go to Canada, it is not. good luck.

A.......!!!!! replied on Friday, April 19, 2013 03:11 PM 

A ture story of two class fellows.
Bottom Line.
1- Two class mates A & B studied together till graduation in Computer sciences A- got the 95% GPA, and B got 75% Gpa
2- A-got luckily Job offered by KSA based company on 1997. While B got two year Jobless.
3- A have tried with his Saudi Employer, to get visa on for his loving friend B, on early 2001. And now B joined to A on the same KSA company in K.S.A Both A&B were unmarried by that time. However due to much better financial situation A got Married on 2002, and brought his wife to K.S.A. The A person was a bit loving to Pakistani passport, and other relegious facts, While B was since childhood, bitter faster and having opposite approach etc. B got married just after 1 year of his arrival, and also brought his family to K.S.A.!!!
During by that time this Saudilization issue was also on peek, where mutual discussion were between both A&B, but finally B was on his ambition. And once day by 2006 he Blasted his canadian immigration news, and have got passport stamp both wife and one Kid, from Islamabad, while the case was filed in K.S.A embassy. And he departed from Riyadh on 2006 December to Canada.
THe A person happily see-off him with best of luck.

Now present. The A person got discontinuation of his Job, from Saudi Employer, due to Saudi Labor Law office, not renewal of my Iqama, and finally came back to my beloved Pakistan. Due to this my loving wife, had got disease of cancer, and last Ramadhan due to poor medical facility, she left us (in-lil-lahe w0inlahe rajoon) on just 28 year of age, and mother of 2 sons, And now this A person is fighting against
all the issues, while today 2013, the B person has the finest Job in Toronto, Canada, with excellent living , and A+ plus medical for all family members, and more over All have Canadian passport, and route to the whole world. The B, don't even bother to talk A, even on bothered to condolences of A's Wife. Just mast in a green wealthy life.!!!

That's all my brother!!!
The person who told you this Story is
Mr. A.......!!!!!!

Good Luck to My beloved Pakistani Brothers...!!!

Observer replied on Friday, April 19, 2013 03:53 PM 

It is a sad story indeed. Inna Lillahi Va Inna Ilaihi Raajeon. May Allah bless you with sabr and power to handle the grave situation you and your kids are in.

However, what would have been your inference had the wife of Mr. B gotten a terminal cancer instead of your wife? Would it have been reverse. You would have been wrong in your conclusions either way because your logic is totally flawed. What would be your conclusion, if God Forbid, tomorrow Mr. B along with his family expires in a fatal car crash caused by a drunk driver on highway 401 in Toronto? Have you ever heard of MADD?

Please do not make generalized conclusions based on isolated incidents and clear exceptions.

BTW, the 95% GPA & 75% GPA do not make much difference in real life. Life is much more than this academic rubbish. May be your friend was/is more practical, more prepared, more proactive &| just plain luckier.

May Allah bless you and your kids. May He also bless the soul of your deceased wife.

MADD = Mothers Against Drunk Driving

MADD USA Statistics

MADD Canada Statistics

P.S. Mr. Omil and anyone in his situation must make a decision based on their individual circumstances, needs, priorities, ambitions and potential.

Omil replied on Friday, April 19, 2013 04:27 PM 

WC,
You are pointing towards something that no one can deny.However allow me to differ with you on "choosing the right people with vote". This only helps when we have a system in place. You only give a vote to run the system,...but in our case the system that we have is bogus and needs to be changed. And in my humble opinion it can only happen through a bloody revolution. I had great hopes with coming elections, but seeing the latest developments it's clear that our sufferings are still far from over. About living with parents, yes one should and how about if one can manage to takes his parents along as one of my friend intends to do. Saudi didn't allow permanent visa for his only mother, and now he was telling that he will take his mother along as well,... may take some time in paper work though, but you can. Do we have all the rights of a first class citizen in our country, I guess NO.

Akb,
A major concern for those who go for such immigration is the cultural clash, it really becomes an uphill task for you to keep up with your religious obligations and maintain your faith as we may comfortably do here. I can't imagine my kids going in co-ed, specially my daughters after living in a conservative society like Saudi. It's a real concern for the conservative class at large, and one can not overlook such concerns while taking decisions like immigrating to Canada permanently.

Wi replied on Saturday, April 20, 2013 01:15 PM 

@Omil,
2. There is hardly any chance that overall situation of my country will improve in the coming times.

----------------------------------------

Every now and then there is discussion about immigration, foreign passport, bad situation of our country etc. I feel most of our educated class not ready to 'own' this country. There are 180m people living in our country, number of them living good life and they are all human being. People have every right to go anywhere based on opportunities they have but please don't insult those, who have no opportunity or opted to live in Pakistan with depressing statements about our country.

Let me tell you that there are people who still 'own' this country and will try their best to make Pakistan a better place for future generations.

“Surely there is ease after hardship” - Al Quran

PS: Mr Omil no offence to you, my comments are general about the topic.

Baba g replied on Saturday, April 20, 2013 06:29 PM 

Very sad to hear from what happened to mr A. But as my experience , the more realistic and practical we become it is better, religion doesnot forbids us to be more practical and realistic to our situation, remaining worrying for daughters being brought up in Canada or in Pakistan , we should compare a neutrally today's women in Lahore with the one in Canada and try to find any difference. And while bringing up daughters we should do our home work until they are married, it depends a lot on how we bring up our girls. As for kids their parents are the first school.

junaid replied on Saturday, April 20, 2013 06:32 PM 

well dear our country no doubt in shambles and hot water due to worst foreign policies but eventually it will come out of it , we have ample
of doctors and engineers ozing out every year from local universities which are almost 100 in number so no dearth of manpower issue people
leaving abroad will not make much difference here rest assure and after
all everyone has the right to move and live and work where ever they feel better remember GOD ALMIGHTY is everywhere to check look after and
punish and reward so no issue of religion i dont see any issue here
dear chill out move out where ever u feel better and yes u may can come
back always to ur beloved pakistan as it will always greet u with open
hands when ever u feel so , life has different flavors for each one of us , the hapiness , wealth, health all come up to u any where why
because it is from the GOD side so cheer up and move on and dont forget to thank GOD (prayer) everyday all the best

Angry Pakistani replied on Sunday, April 21, 2013 05:34 PM 

jo jahan jana chahta hey, chala jaye. jis ney Pakistan aaj tak bachaya awr chalaya hey, woh is ko aayenda bhee chalata rahey ga. kharab tareen hukoomton key ba wajood 180 million Pakistani zinda hein awr zinda rahein gey balkeh 200 million ho jaien gey.

If you are so deep religious as you are trying to show up from your writing, then how you can think to raise your kids in a society that is totally and absolutely against religion?

Frankly speaking, you are just seeking some ethical support to move to Canada. Do whatever you like but dont use or abuse Pakistan to justify your acts.

MK ALI replied on Monday, April 22, 2013 02:01 AM 

religion is inside you. Where ever you live, you have to practice your religion. It doesn't make any difference whether you live in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Canada. There are more than 1.5 million pakistani living in UK and same numbers are almost in USA. There is also a huge pakistani community.
I am living in Europe since 18 and now I am 24. I felt the same what I have recommended you. I lived in UK 2 years and 7 months in Germany and now a days in Nordic countries since 2009.
ALLAH is same and they are not stopping you to pray or anything like that. I never felt ALLAH is different in UK, Germany or in one of the Nordic countries.
So, go ahead.
And frankly some of them will be jealous not to get that opportunity to get in to Canada and they are misguiding you.
I will be a graduate Engineer in Construction Engineering.
If the situations are that good in Pakistan any one of them help me to find a 50000 pakistani rupees job. I am ready to move back to pakistan.
I will say to you go ahead.

Omil replied on Monday, April 22, 2013 07:03 AM 

Dear friends,

Appreciate your input. Let me be very clear that by putting this thread I never meant to ridicule anyone or curse my country, unfortunately I have been misunderstood here. My point was just that what does our religion say about the move that I intend to make and the reasons I have put forward for that move,..only that. No intention of seeking any ethical support at all :)
I would completely disagree with those who keep saying not to bring religion in every issue.....bros how can we put the religion aside and plan our moves while our beloved Prophet pbuh taught us not to even go to the toilet without reciting a particular duaa. Dear bros our each and every move / act should be guided by religion, that's my firm belief. Again I would say that I love my country and its people, and wish it soon turns into a Pakistan so that our future generations could feel proud about it. Ameen

Angry Pakistani replied on Monday, April 22, 2013 04:39 PM 

@Omil. jab aap kee generations Canadian hee ho gaeen to un kee bala sey Pakistan doobey ya bachey:)

I will not comment again. Period.

Siddique replied on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 06:16 AM 

Omil, I can only advise... have faith in Allah.

I will try to state my own example to help you understand the greatness of Allah and limitations of his humble creature.

In 1999, i was one of very few lucky Pakistanis, who had a very good job in Pakistan. My company had given me car and petrol and salary and foreign trips.

Only problem was that Pakistani currency was depreciating very fast and with rising inflation salary started to loose its charm.

Meanwhile, i was offered a job in Saudi Arabia with triple salary. I accepted the offer, mainly due to having the opportunity to earn foreign currency, instead of local currency which was close to become toilet paper. being a professional, i also knew Pakistan is close to bankruptcy and in the same time India brought its army to the border of Lahore.

in short, i calculated a lot and decided to leave Pakistan. After 6 months of my departure, govt. changed and Pakistan recovered from economic nose dive to sky shoot.

Pakistani currency recovered from 80/$ to even 45/$ now i actually started to loose despite earning abroad. I was very upset of leaving my job in Pakistan. I had no choice but to continue but i started converting my foreign currency to Pakistan currency to earn from strengthening PKR. I invested a lot in Pakistan property (especially with urban developers fraudsters) i started to loose and at one point i lost every thing i invested. It was frustrating but than came democratic govt. and free judiciary and Pakistan started to loose and currency went back beyond the mark of 80 in 4-5 years time.

Now, i thank Allah that my kids are safe and are away from the new culture of Pakistan... where children grow watching Indian movies and cartoons and have no Islamic values learned.

Later, i shifted to EU and there is no Islamic education in school but they learn Islam from a Turkish teacher and i'm happy to see them learning the values of Islam, which Pakistani kids have no clue about.

In Pakistan, teaching Islamiyat has become crime and watching cartoons of monkey god is permitted.

By no means Pakistan, is a society where a children of faithful people shall grow freely.

Pakistani children build there character more from cable tv rather than guidance from parents or religion.

Please, keep your children away from cable tv society.
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