Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(75373)
Monday, August 1, 2016 03:42 PM PST 
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(75372)
Monday, August 1, 2016 03:23 PM PST 
Ignored points in negotiations by ABAD

Hi,

This post is in reference to post # 84720 by Aldwin:
Where he has consolidated all the current taxes on real estate sale/purchase. I would request respected CMY, Jameel Mughal, Habib sb, Ahmat and other experts to compare the current and previous rate.

In my opinion, ABAD has just focused on CGT and ignored other taxes like WHT and advance tax for seller and all other taxes for purchaser (They also got per sq feet tax on constructed homes :p ) This is because only big fishes are present in ABAD. This is what dealers and small/medium investors like me need to understand and protest against. More tax whether it is on seller or purchaser will reduce the number of transactions in all societies and prices would halt.


Here are the current tax rates:

Buyer (Filer and Non-Filer both)
Stamp duty 3% on dc rate
CVT 2% on dc rate

Buyer (Non-filer)
WHT tax 0.6% on valuation price
Advance tax 4% on valuation price

Buyer (Filer)
WHT tax 0.3% and Advance tax 2% on valuation price

Seller (Non-filer)
WHT 0.6% of valuation price
Advance tax 4% of valuation price

Seller (Filer)
WHT 0.3% of valuation price
Advance tax 2% of valuation price

CGT (Filer)
10% first yr sale
7.5% second yr sale
5% third yr sale
0% after 3 yr sale

CGT (Non-filer): 0%

Previous rates on real estate transactions were:


Buyer (Filer and Non-Filer both)
Stamp duty 3% on dc rate
CVT 2% on dc rate

Buyer (Non-filer)
WHT tax 2% on dc rates
Advance tax 2% on dc value

Buyer (Filer)
WHT tax 0.5% on dc rates
Advance tax 1% on dc value

Seller (Non-filer)
WHT 1% of dc value
Advance tax 1 % of dc value

Seller (Filer)
WHT 0.5% of dc value
Advance tax 0.5% of dc value

CGT (Filer)
10% of dc value
5% of dc value
0% after 2 yr sale

CGT (Non-filer): 0%

Please highlight if I put some wrong figure. I will try to present it in tabular format shortly.

Lets discuss!!
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(75371)
Monday, August 1, 2016 03:21 PM PST 
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(75370)
Monday, August 1, 2016 03:20 PM PST 
Current Rate

Dear LRE Team,

Kindly evaluate my following plots in DHA Prism :

1) Near B-132
2) Near N-318
3) Near J-258

Also check Near L-560 in DHA Phase 6. Advice on the merits of location.


Thanks.

Mian Fawad replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 03:29 PM PST 

Dear Amir Sb,

Prism near B 132 is close to 110 to 112 lacs ( 2 paid ).

Market Price near N 318 is around 95 to 96 lacs ( 2 paid )

Plot near J 258 is still wroth around 65 lacs ( 2 paid )



Mian Fawad
+
Lahore Real Estate
Email:INFO@LREPK
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(75369)
Monday, August 1, 2016 02:56 PM PST 

Evaluate H-350 Rahbar phase-II
Dear LRE Member,

Please evaluate H-350 of DHA Rahbar Phase-II

Thanks in advance.

Mian Rashid replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 03:00 PM PST 

Dear Rizwan Sb,

Your plot near H 350 price is around 50 lacs.



Mian Rashid
+923028409967
LAHORE REAL ESTATE
EMAIL:INFO@LREPK.COM
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(75368)
Monday, August 1, 2016 02:30 PM PST 
Knowledge Park, A booster for Prism 9 and Phase 7

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(75366)
Monday, August 1, 2016 02:09 PM PST 
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(75365)
Monday, August 1, 2016 02:08 PM PST 
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(75364)
Monday, August 1, 2016 01:36 PM PST 
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(75361)
Monday, August 1, 2016 11:17 AM PST 

Surprise Half tax also for overseas Pakistanis. Hurrrey


:pkf :cl :cl :cl :cl :cl :pkf

Farhan® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 11:31 AM PST 

CMY Sb it says ordinance will be applicable for 4 months. What does it mean?

Pakistan® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 11:50 AM PST 

in these 4 months, it will be passed from assembly and senate to make it formal law

as mentioned in article

CMY replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 12:03 PM PST 

[7/31, 10:51 PM] DW +92314... : Aur DC rate main 200 se 300 % ka izafa kahan gaya

[7/31, 10:55 PM] Choudry Mujahid Yasin USA: That was for FBR rates gain from DC rates. DC rates increasing only about 35%

[7/31, 11:01 PM] Choudry Mujahid Yasin USA: FBR rates will be market rates but capital gains tax will be charged on half of marker rates for tax calculations this year. 75 percent of markert rates to be used next year for capital gains tax etc and on third year FBR will use full market rates amount for capital gains tax use. This is going to be done not to severely hurt real estate markets now.

Not Registered Yet 0755 replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 01:04 PM PST 

This half rate concession is applicable on all properties except DHA. So for DHA all including overseas will have to pay full. :)

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 01:39 PM PST 

This is very good news for overseas Pakistanies.

Farooq replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 02:17 PM PST 

Overseas Pakistanis; don't be happy. It means only those overseas Pakistanis who will get plots government schemes under overseas pakistanis quota. So chill and ready to pay tax as others.

ShahzadQamar® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 06:05 PM PST 

CMY, now that is the real solution. I had my biggest concern on this abrupt jurky landing that I believe is resolved now based on your aforementioned comment to implement it in 3 years. And secondly third party valuation is also null and void now, no matter if market value is defined 2 to 3 times of DC rate but as decided it shall be crystal clear to everyone.
Taxes can be absorbed by market but the open door of corruption for market valuation was really a bad decision and its reversal now shall definitely bring positive impact on real estate.
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(75360)
Monday, August 1, 2016 07:04 AM PST 

اسلام وعلیکم: کچھ لوگ ٹیکس کے بارے میں غلط اطلاعات شئرکر رہے ہیں۔اس غلط فہمی کو دور کرنے کیلئے تفصیل کے ساتھ لکھ کر شئرکر رہا ہوں۔مہربانی فرما کر اچھی طرح پڑھیں،سمجھیں اور زیادہ سے زیادہ شئرکریں تاکہ دوستوں کی غلط فہمی دور ہو سکے۔ شکریہ

سب سے پہلے پراپرٹی کے خریدنے پر خریدار پرانے طریقے سے ہی ٹیکس دیگاصرف نئے ریٹ میں ہمارے گردونواع کے ٹاؤنز میں پرانے ڈی سی ریٹ میں بیس فیصد اضافہ ہواہے مثلاً جوہرٹاؤن کا پرانا ریٹ 390000/فی مرلہ تھا اب 468000 فی مرلہ ہو گا۔ اب فروخت کنندہ پہلے کی طرح نئے ریٹ پر گین ٹیکس ایک فیصد فائلر اور دو فیصد نان فائلر اور خریدارایڈوانس ٹیکس دو یا چار فیصد دیگا، باقی صوبائی ٹیکس (اشٹام ،سی وی ٹی وغیرہ) پرانے ڈی سی ریٹ پر جمع کرائے گا۔
تیس جون سولہ سے پہلے خریدی گئ پراپرٹی تین سال سے پہلے فروخت کرنے پر صرف پرافٹ پر پانچ فیصد کیپیٹل گین ٹیکس ہوگا اور اس طرح پانچ فیصدادا کرکے وہ پرافٹ والی رقم بھی وائٹ منی ہو جائیگی ۔

یکم جولائ سولہ کے بعد خریدی گئ پراپرٹی کو تین کے بعد فروخت کرنے پر کوئ ٹیکس نہیں ہوگا اگر تین سال سے پہلے فروخت کرتے ہیں تو پہلے سال فروخت کرنے پرافٹ کا دس فیصد،دوسرے سال ساڑھے سات ، اور تیسرے سال پانچ فیصد کیپیٹل گین ٹیکس دینا ہوگا اور پرافٹ والی رقم وائٹ منی ہوگی۔


۔اب ایڈوانس ٹیکس یا ود ہولُنڈنگ ٹیکس تیس لاکھ کی بجائے چالیس لاکھ پروصول ہوگا
شکریہ

CMY replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 07:32 AM PST 

Thanks for Urdu typing by a frien.

FAA.awan® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 07:32 AM PST 

Thank you so much CMY sb.I am also telling the same story to our friends on this forum.But I do n't know why the people are extra disturbed.Soon everybody will be cool and calm l believe.

CMY replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 09:59 AM PST 

Answer to LRE 36 Gulf WhatsApp friends group



*FAQ How much capital gains tax and when due?*

Few friends still confused after my very clear 2 detailed message today so a running a third message today. Advance sorry after this I won't have enough energy to answer more tax message today in all WhatsApp groups. InshaAllah after more details DC rates and FBR values notified we will have detailed audio on this subject.

No CGT tax due for seller if property held for more than 2 years and transfered before July 1st 2016.

From July 1st 2016 further transfers purchases if property was held more 3 years no tax.

If property purchased before July 1st 2016 but you sell it now any time after July 1st 2016 within 3 years from date of purchase your special capital gains tax will be flat 5%.


If purchased after July 1st and sold within 12 months 10 % tax and 24 months tax will be 7.5% and within 36 months CGT will be 5% after 36 months ZERO CGT

*TIP of the day*

Actually sellers got a big break in new capital gains tax. Before July 1st they were bound to pay 10% on gains if property sold within 12 months of purchase. Now you got a special rate of just 5% to pay for Upto 3 years from date of purchase so Don't sell till just before 3 years time. Not only you get special rate all your gains will be white money to invest in future.



Can't explain it more easily than that.

AKHTAR® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 10:06 AM PST 

Thanks CMY sahib

HassanHC® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 10:12 AM PST 

CMY Saab many of our friends are unhappy why we got quiet fair deal. They know inshallah market will bounce back but are in denial. Let time decide. Let's wait inshallah these pessimistic will soon be buying plots and not sit on the fence for long. I wish all the best I hope they get good deal as rates will bounce.

ahmad replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 01:55 PM PST 

Do 20% increase in DC value has been declared?

Saagar replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 02:15 PM PST 

CMY saab, most of us appreciate the efforts of our representatives who made this workable and logical deal with the Govt. We are happy that our hard earned White money would remain White during buying selling deals. No one ever made such efforts as now made by our real estate representatives and the Govt. We don't want our money to be called Black. We just need White money, may it be less, and thats it.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 02:50 PM PST 

Dear CMY, As you also mentioned in WhatsApp message and all are also convinced that if one buy & sell property in same fascial year then technically gain will be zero and all money on top of that will be white. And if we start to write orginal deeds then we are going put us & dealers in trouble because of FBR reputation and addiction of bribe. I am still not convinced with this logic that GOVT left such loop or FBR will keep eye closed. One of my coleague from Karachi recently received a notice from FBR in which FBR inquired him about source of income that he is using to pay plot of Bahria Karachi installments and cash he is keeping in Pakistan bank account. He is not the one there are many too served with such notices. As an evidence I am sharing following link with you.

http://www.pkrevenue.com/exclusive/fbr-issues-notices-to-property-investors-in-bahria-town/

In my opinion, we should wait for detailed document and notification to come out then need to understand procedure from tax/legal consultants. We all want business as usual and benefit ourselves as well as GOVT.
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(75359)
Monday, August 1, 2016 06:27 AM PST 
i dont know why people are so happy

I dont understand why people are so happy with the deal .

actually, its a big win for Govt. they made all stake holders/ so called dumb negotiators fool !!

very good tactics by GOVT here , all dumb neogatiors had no clue .

GOVT achieved huge deal with inc the Fair Market value and inc time frame to 3 years

Where is the win here for Stake holders ??/

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 06:59 AM PST 

Dear Doctor Sb,

Its really a winning situation for the investors under the current situation.

Fair Market Value is better for you as a tax payer rather than current DC Rates. You would not pay any Gain Tax if you buy and sell s property in the same financial year as Fair Market Value will remain the same. Gain Tax is imposed on the difference between Purchase and Sale
Prices.

But if you wish to maintain DC Rates, then more of your white money will become black as you would be posing to buy and sell your property at (less) DC Rates rather than Fair Market Rate.

The real issue is not the New Tax Rates, as they would not make much difference as compared to Previous Tax Rates. But the real issue is the confusion among investors regarding additional amount of tax they would have to pay in a single property transaction.

Fortunately, the new agreement with Govt. has cleared the dust, and the situation remained almost the same with just a little more taxes.

But unfortunately, due to ill informed discussions by some of the members is maintaining and creating further confusion. I would request my friends to avoid adding confusion based on assumptions and unfounded apprehensions.

MIT® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 07:49 AM PST 

@'doctor' I do value your opinion but what is holding you not registering yourself because who knows who is who; anyone can.......

Goraya replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 08:50 AM PST 

@Tahir Islam Bokhari. Thanks for your fair assessment. Hopefully, people who want confusion to persist till general election, will get guidance.

Doctor replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 09:43 AM PST 

Well said Tahir Bokhari !!

It helps clear my confusions too

HassanHC® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 09:58 AM PST 

Yes ppl want clarity rest in Pakistan ppl have money they just don't want to deal with grey area and human intervention. Still Pakistan real estate has given ver good returns and has lots of opportunities. Every one will get level playing field no ambiguity and long term investor and short term trader who sells within one year will be happy with the outcome.

Jahanzeb Saleem replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 10:33 AM PST 

I agree with Mr.Bokhari views as now investor has to pay some additional amount in the form of taxes but will be able to convert less of money into black money due to introduction of Fair Market Values.In my opinion much of the dust has been settled and normal business activity will be started from today as the govt is avoiding any further delays. So friends lets move on and dispel misconceptions and hasty conclusions.

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 05:02 PM PST 

Thanks brothers for your supporting comments. I would encourage people in this forum to try understanding the situation, which is actually quite positive.

The problem is actually the unfounded and ill-informed negative remarks, and in fact sentiments of the people are far more important than a very little/negligible increase in tax rates.
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(75358)
Monday, August 1, 2016 06:14 AM PST 
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(75357)
Monday, August 1, 2016 05:18 AM PST 
Introducing Fair Market rates real win for the Government

I think the government played its hand cleverly and used the age old tactics of inserting some clauses that it planned to withdraw in the first place i.e. like state bank evaluators, high CG rates at smaller year duration, etc. In return, they fooled their counterparts by introducing notification of fair market rates by FBR !!!! This is their real win. They will determine the market price for federal taxation rather than rely on dc rate which could not be increased too much since provincial governments need to acquire land from public at these rates. We all know FBR is more corrupt than state bank itself. So what is the advantage gained by real estate negotiators in this? I fail to understand.
Percentage could be small this year, but they will keep increasing the percentage in the later years. This is what this government does best. The real estate negotiators should have outrightly rejected any market price determination by FBR and stood their ground on using dc rate as the basis for all calculations.

User_6006® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 05:18 AM PST 

As a new comer and student into property trends i can clearly tell you what is going on and near future ,
Govt clearly made up mind to distribute public investment into other sectors like small business , commodities , saving schemes , bonds .
Current taxes settlement will add further backward pressure on market , because it's still high taxes , govt tricked us by imposing so high and than minimising it to what they have real in mind
Property works on it's cycle , with 2011 recovery to 2016 boom , market is going into slump natural phase , no matter of how much govt investing in lahore , in slump phase plot remain of same value even given possession
With less buyer in future nothing good i can see , beside govt should strengthen this sector to survive slump acted against it
Agents/dealer trying their best to keep moving things but they will and public taste repeating history from .

User_6006® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 05:37 AM PST 

Govt complicated things a lot , so many bad news about it on media , over discussion etc ,only resulted into loss of trust into property sector , govt in haste and greed of more taxes or in try of moving people towards other flop sectors successfully shake trust of people from property , it will hurt investor a lot , till next elections property market will see genuine buyers only , investor already started moving abroad , or in other sectors . welcome bad phase , more seller hold more he loose now

doctor replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 06:20 AM PST 

I fully agree with you ;

they made every one fool here. their whole idea was to enforce FMV and inc DC rate to get more taxes and inc limit of CGT to 3 year holding !!!

real estate dealers/ stake holders were absolutely made fool

SIM replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 11:23 AM PST 

In my opinion 4% advance tax on fair market value will be the biggest problem. If you buy a commercial plot worth 10 crores, you will have to pay 40 lacs as advance tax only. Which previously was negligible on DC rates.
Karachi dealers have already rejected the deal and announced protests. I think big win for Govt.

HassanHC® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 11:31 AM PST 

Lahore dealers have accepted as here DC rate was not hugely different. Sir Jee it's refundable when you file taxes. Plus will be adjusted against any other tax due. Also non filer if
files tax can get it back. All in all go to zameen forums most of the dealers are looking confident and relieved.

HassanHC® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 11:31 AM PST 

Lahore dealers have accepted as here DC rate was not hugely different. Sir Jee it's refundable when you file taxes. Plus will be adjusted against any other tax due. Also non filer if
files tax can get it back. All in all go to zameen forums most of the dealers are looking confident and relieved.

Szaidi® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 01:17 PM PST 

It is a good win for Govt. Beside increasing tax rates they have taken power to decide market rates every year. So now every year market rates will be increased. Also power to decide market rate will be in the hand of FBR instead of SBP. SBP would be much fair as compared to FBR. Now FBR will use tactics of increasing market rate every year for some higher value and after protest of dealers and people they will give discount of few percent. So it will be win-win situation for Govt. But in spite of all overseas Pakistanis has no other choice but to invest in property. So growth will still be seen in property market.

Tahir Islam Bokhari replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 03:37 PM PST 

Dear Friends, the Govt. can only win if the investors will also win, otherwise the Govt. will be a bigger looser as it has already been proved in the last one month when several times less tax has been collected compared to previous months.

But I think that the confusion among people is a bigger issue than the taxes . Its actually a winning situation for the investors also under the current scenario.

Fair Market Value is better for you as a tax payer rather than current DC Rates. You would not pay any Gain Tax if you buy and sell s property in the same financial year as Fair Market Value will remain the same. Gain Tax is imposed on the difference between Purchase and Sale
Prices.

But if you wish to maintain DC Rates, then more of your white money will become black as you would be posing to buy and sell your property at (less) DC Rates rather than Fair Market Rate.

The real issue is not the New Tax Rates, as they would not make much difference as compared to Previous Tax Rates. But the real issue is the confusion among investors regarding additional amount of tax they would have to pay in a single property transaction.

Fortunately, the new agreement with Govt. has cleared the dust, and the situation remained almost the same with just a little more taxes.

But unfortunately, due to ill informed discussions by some of the members is maintaining and creating further confusion. I would request my friends to avoid adding confusion based on assumptions and unfounded apprehensions.
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(75356)
Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:43 PM PST 

Dear CMY Sahib
Any chance of up rise Dha 9town in august

Please regard

yes replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:57 PM PST 

Yes sir" 9town and prism.

Tahir lutfi replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:59 PM PST 

All properties will be stagnant or will on downward direction so the same rule will be for DHA town

Yes replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 12:02 AM PST 

Dha town prism or all 5 Marla will be real gainers.
Under 40 lacs exempted and every one in media thinks it's a win for Realestate.

prism replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 12:26 AM PST 

prism fundamentals are strong i.e.

*Development started
*LRR will complete within one year
*Superb
location
*Unique development feature like theme park, oval complex etc
*Good for investment as well as for end users intending to construct after 4 to 5 years

Kureshi® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 05:12 AM PST 

Awan Sb , I am also surprised to see so much negativity on this forum and that too from some very nice persons. I guess this tax matters has gone on people nerves.

Guys , stay positive. Alot could have gone worse. We are still better off. Soon dust will settle and we will be getting investment tips from experts.

Adnan_Ali® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 05:14 AM PST 

you are right FAA.awan sb and 1 clarification that If there is any property whose Market value is for example 55 lakh but its FBR specified value is less than 40 Lakh, it would be considered in Range of less than 40 lakhs so no extra WHT/CGT would be applied in such cases. so in many cases , 10Marla and even in some societies 1 Kanal plot holders will take its benefit.

FAA.awan® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 05:52 AM PST 

I agree with Kureshi sb and Adnan Ali sb.Within a few days rate lists will be available and each and everything will be cleared.

HassanHC® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 10:19 AM PST 

Awan Saab and Kureshi Saab. Ppl here dont know that we were critical of the government when they did that in June initially. But if we are now relieved and think it was the second best outcome. I don't know why ppl not happy. All big estates are supporting this. There own crores invested. We ourselves have stakes. We are also relieved. May be ppl want to confuse others but they know that this deal is not perfect but not bad.

Akmal replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 01:22 PM PST 

All 5merla plot a jump in few weeks.
Insha Allah
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(75355)
Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:46 PM PST 

A gift for military men on pressure I created on several social media and other sources

HassanHC® replied on Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:31 PM PST 

Yes good news Mashallah

Every one who wants to compare other options.


On trading stocks gains tax % in Pak
On business income tax in Pak more then 30 %
On job salary income tax more then 30%

India gains tax on stock 20%
India gains tax on Realestate 20% within 3 years

Dubai why will you invest as slow real estate market recession

Saving account in bank these days only 5% and consider hram
Gold you will buy but it's not guaranteed as up or down

Buying EURO POUND after Brexit so much volatility no charm.

Still real estate is most safe and secure and good gains also.
Therefore I am positive and I feel inshallah market will be upbeat.

Ammar® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 01:01 AM PST 

I am not against Army but i am sorry to say that in Pakistan every rule is made for powerful people.
Army can force government to amend laws for them but no one is going to raise voice in support of common man.....

Irfan replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 02:13 AM PST 

Please dont give the example of Canada to misguide the peoples. Tell the peoples complete story. There is no comparison between Pakistan and Canada. Not at all. Is there any buying rebate in Pakistan? Ever somebody got any return money from FBR without Bureaucrat uncle?
The biggest difference is FBR itself. There is no FBR in Canada.
FBR involvement means increasing corruption. If your uncle is govt officer than you dont worry. FBR is the most dangerous and harmful for Pakistan.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 04:02 AM PST 

Dear Hassan, Dubai market last year growth is 22.4. Only in July new 317 buyers registered.

Dubai is slow replied on Monday, August 1, 2016 04:58 AM PST 

Actually Dubai is very stagnant and I am my self struck there. Waiting since last year situation very slow. Dubai is so cyclical that ordinary man have no idea what will unfold.
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