Lahore Real Estate Forum

Thursday, October 8, 2026 02:16 PM
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(36765)
Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:09 AM PST 
Residentail Plot for Sale

I have a plot in my name situated in D Block Soan garden, Islamabad (plot 4, Street 7-A). Size is 30x60...its ideally located park face , level plot in a small street of 6 plots only, first 3 are already constructed, its No.4.gas, electricty and phone are available in the society. Final price of this plot is Rs. 2,075,000/= i.e. Twenty Lacks and seventy five thousand only. You may wish to contact me on Mobile: + or email .
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(36764)
Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:08 AM PST 
House with Separate Entrance is required on rent

An House in Islamabad in F/G-7,8,9 or H-8,9 on rent with separate entrance for each story, if double story.
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(36763)
Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:07 AM PST 
25*50 Plot for Sale

A 25*50 plot for sale in I-16/2.Owner is leaving for abroad and thats why want to sell the plot asap.

-------------

A three bedrooms single storey house is available for sale having 1 drawing room, 2 bath rooms, 1 kitchen. It is situated in Tench Bhatta, Rawalpindi. Dimension area is 1462 square feet.Owner is leaving for abroad and thats why wants to sell the house asap.

Yasir replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:46 AM PST 

Regarding the above mentioned ad.The final price of the plot is 13 lac whereas the final price of house is 16 lac.
Contact me asap@ for more info.

jawaid replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 04:17 AM PST 

Please mention the exact
location of plot as ovesease pakistani don,t know the location. Please mention complet location.
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(36762)
Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:06 AM PST 
6 Marla Double Storey Brand New House In RWP Cantt

6 Marla Brand New Doble Storey House in RWP Cantt for sale

Double portion, 2 Drawings - 2 TV Lounges, 4 beds, two kitchens, 4 baths, wide porch.

Address: New Afshan Colony, Range Road, RWP


Ques for Guest replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 04:05 AM PST 

What's your asking price. Also, can you give a better idea of the
location inside Afshan Colony?
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(36761)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 09:19 PM PST 
facing park beautifull house for sale

Ad Type
City
Scheme
Phase
Block
Size
Demand(Rs)
For Sale
lahore
Model Town
EXT
P
1-k
17000000
facing park one kanal,4-bed,beautifull constructed house for sale at very attractive price.

feel free for any query
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(36760)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 08:58 PM PST 

Ad Type
City
Scheme
Phase
Block
Plot
Size
Demand(Rs)
Features
For Sale
islamabad
bahria town
8
B
480
10 marla
11 lacs
near to main blv
:sh: :sh: :sh: :sh: :sh: :sh: :sh: :sh:
>
(36759)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 07:58 PM PST 
Attension : Mr. Assad

:pkf

Dear Assad,

Sorry to use this page to contact you. Please leave your all contact numbers.

I'll come Pakistan on this friday, and willing to sale 5 merla house in Eden Value homes. My stay there will be two weeks. I'll contact you and give all the imformations about the house.

Regards

Assad replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 08:51 PM PST 

Respectable seller thanks for remembering me!
sir you may
contact me @



at your convinience.

Regards

Sarwar replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 09:09 PM PST 

Best way to find the buyers................
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(36758)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 07:37 PM PST 
TELEPHONE NUMBER OF HEAD OFFICE

Dear Investors

Please find the land line number of State life investor to ask any info or inquiry about the scheme. Telephone number is and 5921405.

Thanks

CORRECTOR replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 07:41 PM PST 

Correction and 5921405 STATE LIFE HEAD OFFICE
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(36757)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 05:50 PM PST 
Cornor Plot - 200-SQYD, J-Block, Bahria Town-Ph-8, Rwp

Ad Type
City
Scheme
Phase
Block
Plot
Size
Demand(Rs)
For Sale
Rawalpindi
Bahria Town
8
J
273
7-Marla
Rs. 519,750/-
:forsale: :forsale: :forsale: :forsale: :forsale:


I want to sell my own 7-Marla (200-Yards) Cornor Plot at J-Block, Bahria Town, Ph-8, Rawalpindi.

The detail of amount paid to Bahria Town for this plot is as follow:

Amount already paid to BT: 519250/-

Total remaining amount payable to BT: 94,750/- (Only)


Demand: Rs. 519250/-


Farid-ud-Din


:forsale: :forsale: :forsale: :forsale: :forsale:

JI replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 06:43 PM PST 

Oh My God. Is it that bad?

Hope replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 05:06 PM PST 

Is not so bad if he gets back what he has paid.
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(36755)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 03:35 PM PST 
Urgently wanted plot in DHA-2

Ad Type
City
Scheme
Phase
Block
Size
Features
Wanted
islamabad
DHA
02
J
250 syd
best location
DEAR VISITOR I NEED A 250 SYDS PLOT IN DHA-2 ISLAMABAD,SECTOR J (OLD COMMONERS TOWN PHASE 01)
@ GOOD LOCATION. ONLY OWNERS MAY CONTACT.

:h :h :h :h
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(36754)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 03:10 PM PST 

Dear Naveed yaseen and other Gurus

There is a question, its answer may help other also.

How we can calculate the affordability index of Lahore

Or how we can calculate median Income and median house price in Lahore or Islamabad or Karachi

Thanks
>
(36753)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 02:00 PM PST 
1-kanal plot for sale

Ad Type
City
Scheme
Phase
Block
Plot
Size
Demand(Rs)
For Sale
lahore
sui-gas
1
e
124/6
18.5marla
6200000
3 minutes drive from d-h-a ,phase,4 and 5 ...excellent location
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(36752)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:14 PM PST 
Ref to[40661], Are there positive signs???

Dear limo following indication may Point to Positive direction
1. In general prices did not fall much in last 2.5 years they are almost hovering at same price.
2.There is no down trend in the areas which have residential potential the Price of populated areas is about 3 to 3.5 Lac per Merla for small plots i.e. less than 10 Merla.[not taking into account DHA], The difference between this price and well developed/underdeveloped residential areas is two Fold,
For example In early 2005 it did not make sense when DHA Phase 4 plot among houses was 90 Lac to 1 Cror and DHA 8 File was 80 and DHA 7 file was 65 to 70 Lac, In 2008. To me it makes sense if DHA 4 plot among houses is 90 Lac and DHA 6 possession area is 45 Lac, or DHA 7 is in 35 Lac. Johar Town 10 Merla is 32 to 33 Lac and Punjab Govt 2 Near College Road is 17,18 Lac.
3. Inflation in other sectors is coming up and soon you will see an average experienced professional will get 1 Lac salary in Pakistan, [still people are getting even more than that but it is not common]
4. In Pakistan usual cycle is like 7 to 10 years as we had seen in past.
The only unexpected Dollar surge has depressed the Market temporarily, I agree unfortunately for sort term best advice is to convert your assets to Dollar, which not good for Pakistan, But soon those dollars may be poured to financial system again, If you talk of investor’s trust I think you need 3 more years to earn investors interest again.

limo replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:01 PM PST 

Habib thanks a lot for posting it again, though i had read it before.
If
prices did'nt fall much in last 2.5 years and instead have gone up in the areas having residential potential,does'nt it mean that they are at their real value right now.And we are calling the market depressed because the property value in certain areas (mostly with less residential potential) have gone down from their real value. Meaning at the time of boom, property values are more or less artificial or in other words property is overvalued.Please correct me if i am not getting it right.
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(36751)
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 05:08 AM PST 
Projected "On" on DHA vallely

Dear Atiq Raja and other experts Of Islamabad what is expected On on 5 and 8 merla Plots in DHA valley in coming Couple of Months

Aamir replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:49 AM PST 

Nil. At least for the time being.

CMY replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:06 PM PST 

Thousands of thousands have WON the plot and most of them are looking for Quick profit. I have received 224 calls from sellers and two buyers. BTW these two buyers were buying from friend and relative so he could get out of this. None of these smart people knew DHA Islamabad phase 2 extension one kanal is available for sale at JUST 9.25 Lacs.

I dont know how can some one look for ON when one kanal plots are available many times cheaper.

atiq raja replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 08:49 PM PST 

now i am in islamabad,i have checked the price,there is no profit,sale purchase on negative side mean purchasers demanding 20 percent less amount which have actulay paid.

akhtar replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 09:53 PM PST 

Atiq Raja Sahib, your comments on EMAAR pakistan is going sale, canyon view and other project in karach.

is its good signal for OverSeas \block 5& 8 marla?

One more thing: University Town/Khyber housing society. I have applied for 50X90 feet plot in july not yet receive any reply from them. do you have any information, pl reply

OFF replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 09:56 PM PST 

For DHA valley plots seller, instead of looking for ON, people should be rather concerned about how much is OFF.

DHA Valley Islamabad replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 02:13 AM PST 

DHA Valley Islamabad was a big flop. Any one invested in DHA Valley Islamabad will loose all money. DHA Valley Islamabad development will not be started before 10 years because people bought DHA 2 ext are waiting for map for last many years. Don't buy DHA Valley Islamabad from friends or relatives. If DHA Valley Islamabad was a profit maker they will never sell it to you.

overseas 1 replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 04:43 AM PST 

Jameel,....Most of the people advising above are dealers or have vested intersts and that's how they spread gloom and doom.Please hang on to your investment and sit tight..it's too early

Habib replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:31 PM PST 

DHA vally islamabad's actual picture will come in 2 months time, But I think it will almost same fate as that of Bahria 9,10 only differnce will be DHA name and small plots, so it might stay for long time no profit no loss business, residentail potential is very low and these are very big hurdles in developmen, The Biggest is there is no water in land and they will have to make a dam for that, for that DHA Islamabad and Emaar had signed MOU 2 ys back but Practcal work did not start, Looking at repeated Failures and losses of Emmar, It looks very difficult that these things will come to reality soon.
if someone had bought in Emmar projects in islamabad they can really tell what is progress there.
I guess lahore 9,10 was much better investment than DHA Ext islamabad

Salman Sandhu replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:51 PM PST 

Mr.Habib's observations are logical and supported by facts. He has rightly said that the real picture will emerge in a couple of months. Also Pakistan's financial situation and the direction/policies will determine the investment interests of multinational investing companies, e.g. Emmar on which the future development of this sector rests.
With reference to the comments of Mr. overseas1 I fully agree that the beneficiaries/dealers due to their vested interests try to depress the market by using special tactics or otherwise.
It's a pity. We claim to belong to a religion based on honesty, and morals but when it comes to financial benefits, we cross all limits of intellectual dishonesty. May I remind that religions are created to guide the humanity to live in a peaceful society. Dishonest practices e.g. creation of wrong market signals for ones personal benefit, and exploitation of small investors to reap huge gains is against the norms of ethics as well the religion we believe in.
I hope we can be honest in our thoughts, words and opinions.
>
(36750)
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:20 PM PST 

what are the consequences of a country defaulting?
please share your knowledge or provide a link so we can get information.
Many Thanks

ali11 replied on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:51 PM PST 

which country is defaulting ?????

aa replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:08 AM PST 

many

Jameel replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 01:23 AM PST 

Not much you think of but it will be very shameful, The possible results will be Pakistan Rating will be very Low, No commercial Org will lend Money, Most of things like oil is Bought on short Credit Like "ountry's Credit card" Then People will ask for cash money,
The manuveribility of Country will be lost. Rupee might devalue further, till level that people start asking Dollar for Commodities or dealing even inside country, poverity will further increase.
Mostly the lender themselves dont let you default they defer the Payments Taking into account bad economic conditions.
In Cold war era more than 80% of loans used to be weaved off, just to earn political favor, So Butto and Zia did no wrong taking such Loans which were really "Aids" in that time, But now single super power is using these Loans as a weapon.

Ahmed replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 01:33 AM PST 

You will be taxed heavily and will see no infrastructure development.
Prices of utilities will be increased unjustifically or they will be cut off forcing you to buy it from alternate sources.
There will be no merit in any sort fo bussiness and all decsions will br taken without notice of general public.
Contracts will be awarded to lenders.
People will be forced to jobs on cheap wages and rupee may become worth paper.
I think we cannot be more defaulted then now.

limo replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 02:35 AM PST 

This board is often filled with a lot of healthy dicussion pertaining to different topics but one thing i feel is never considered, that this board is not only viewed by intellects but also by individuals who have got little to average knowledge.I also come from the same class and want to highlight the difficulties faced by such individuals.Not to talk about this board only but even if we see in and around us, we will find plenty who may not be knowing exactly what is currency devaluation and why it is done, what does inflation mean, how a country gets defaulter and consequences, what exactly are FER and how they go down, what is the balance of trade, what is a rental yield, how to determine a property is undervalued or overvalued and how one can know about it, how come dollar sometimes becomes stronger and sometimes weaker and what makes it strong and what makes it weak, what is liquidity, how oil
prices affect our economy,what is trade deficit,what is tax refund,what are open and close files or affidavits,what is stock crash, and waht is a real estate boom,what is CRR that state bank recently reduced and why, and so forth.Would'nt it be nice if respectable intellects could elaborate these terms sometime.It would not only promote the arwareness, but also help in widening the circle of the participants in these debates.

Pardesi, Jeddah replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 04:03 PM PST 

Beside financial implications, nation is exposed to high social disturbance & therefore it has deep-rooted multidimentional impact.

Lets understand the situation hypothetically: if a family having average earnings till 2007 (8-10 cror Pakistanis fall in this category) getting squeezed to maintain itself (food & energy crisis already at full swing). And now source of income is also under serious threat; what would be their behavior??? mental approach??? & especially, without health & educational support.

It is my humble request: Beg for Allah's Mercy & follow his commands:
" Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. For Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Surah Zumr, Aya 53.

Insha-Allah the situation will graviate to a better position if as a nation we follow quaid's guidance individually & collectively: Unity - Faith - Discipline

Dear Limo
Pakistanis in general, are far better than many nations as people understand the impact of economic terms with/or without using the correct label. Understanding comes when one gets INVOLVED in dialogue; ignorance is no excuse.

limo replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 04:36 PM PST 

But ignorance is a bliss sometimes, is'nt it!

Slam replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 05:09 PM PST 

Dear Limo, As you have also acknowledged in your first post that every one is not economics specialist and neither every one can be guru.
It is very much expected that we will never be allowed to default because it is not in favor of lenders who are regularly receiving debt on their old loans.
But even street hawker can tell that we are in much worse economic state as of an year agao.
We as a nation are being kept hostage, we are raising slaves in shape of our children. Overseas Pakistanis are ought to keep coming back and send money back home for their own personal reasons.
As said by Perdesi, we are going through mental torture when next morning we found out that we lost half of our salaries because some tycoon send few billions $ abroad and in the process he spent few billion from state exchequer to shut any critical mouth (by hook or by crook).
Every day we face new taxes and surcharges, without accountability!
It is the responsibility of the govt. (for the people by the people) to tell us where are they consuming our taxes? Where as nothing can be seen on the ground all running infrastructure projects had been halted and no new projects are to be seen.
Industrialist has to buy dollars to buy dollars from open market to buy spares for his machines! This is hurting hte economy even more.
2 year ago we were proud people from proud nation and today we are the most humiliated nation in the entire world. Foreign nations don't even like to have even sports relation with us, in some years down the line we will be a B
team.
Western airlines have cease to operate in Pakistan. Arab airlines are charging twice as the charge to go to India/Bangladesh/Srilanka!
Every month our credit rating is revised. Our currency is in free fall.
Hello....wake up it cannot go any worst. We are not a sovereign nation any more. Our economics is worst than Afghanistan.

arsu replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:01 AM PST 

Pardesi bi would you spare a moment to define this ignorance.If your a/c starts malfunctioning, you rush only to find an a/c technician because you are totally clueless about the problem your a/c is facing).Why? Because you know deep down that its a specialized field and only a good a/c technician is supposed to have good knowledge about it and can fix the problem.So what one should call you here, ignorant.Answer is no, because its a specialized field and ordinary person may not be having enough knowledge of it.I think you got my point.

sahmed157 replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 05:08 AM PST 

There is an article under news tab on this site by Javed Choudry, its title is "Makes no difference to me". Its worth reading. Article is posted by Assad.
>
(36749)
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:04 PM PST 
what is Future of state life 2

They have some land but they still they Could get their Map approved by LDA, The approval of map at least Gurantee that Land is legally with Society, Now If they acted very slow soon the develoment chages they have collected will be good for nothing, or will be used up fixing other issues,
Now if even DHA takes over they will impose Hefty development charges may be more than their own DHA Plot, reason is if They Give Plot for Plot and spend all the money in development why they will take all that headache.

Pardesi, Jeddah replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 05:36 PM PST 

Owing to its very good
location & no fraud news about the society's administration todate (at least to my knowledge) it is still a good investment if someone entered into it at low prices, especially, as compared to other societites which stand their plus points as: distance from Thokar, ring road, airport, motorway, etc.; exit time though uncertain.

Upside: Charges of development at DHA standards can be recovered from the market; with the possibility of DHA taking it over, it will improve its rates.
Down side: Slow development pace if it remains with State Life.

Waheed Malik replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 09:56 PM PST 

Dear Jameel
Looking at the
location of SL Phase II, I once again mentioned here that it is engulfed by DHA 9/10 land. What do you think, DHA will have to provide links between its Phases through IV and V, otherwise link would be all around behind the Phase V through Phase VII. If at all DHA wouldnt take it over, link roads would have to be made by DHA for connectivity and accesses.
Waheed Malik

Jameel replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 04:35 AM PST 

I guess I could not Claer in my post Above, I wnated to Compare price of DHA 9,10 with Statelife,
Even if it will be taken over by DHA still it is not a good deal as both will have to pay same development Charges, Their price is almost same now. DHA will do some Map chages and more atractive areas will be converted to Commercial or be given to Buliders [see the example of Parkview], The affectees may be relocated to other areas. Why to go to uncertanity saving 2 Lac and why not to buy directly 9,10,
If there is no merger with DHA even then Statelife 2 will be great loser, they have no power to get map approved, and later to clear pockets etc, Neither they have money to complete development.
>
(36748)
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 09:29 PM PST 
How the system works !

Three retired army officers working for NAB got promoted to grade 20 a couple of days ago and as it has been decided that NAB will be no more, so these officers will definitely be eying on some lucrative posts in ministries.They got this grade within a very little period of time.Average civilian has to wait for almost 20 years to reach this grade.

ali11 replied on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:52 PM PST 

system is same for anyone.... look who's our president... thanks to the system.

just stop bulshsting about army....

Jan Malik - Dammam replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 03:10 AM PST 

arsu - looks like u hv prejudiced mental attitude towards army officers. It is our army who helps us whenever we need it. U hv written average civilian has to wait for almost 20 years to reach this grade. To my guess these army officers would not be less than Majors or Colonels who must have spent about 15/20 years in active army service. So please do not forget their length of service they have been in army. I hope I hv bn able to get u understand.

Ali3 replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 06:13 AM PST 

and don't forget the unlimited budget they get is at the expense of the lives of innocent children of this great nation of PAKISTAN!!!

Now you'll say it's necessary for the defense! I don't even want to waste time to answer this nonsense.

Abrar replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:31 AM PST 

A retired army officer has no place in a civilian public service. A retirement after a full service will give him good pension and other benefits, enough for his own remaining life and his family. If he still wants to work, he can start his own business or join a private enterprise. If he is prematurely retired on medical ground then army can accommodate him with a desk job or give him employment in any of its affiliated project. This is a legacy of army rule, interference in civilian matters and a symbol of corruption. Higher civilian positions should always be available for qualified and deserving civilian public service officers.

Aamir replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:51 PM PST 

I think some of the above do not have have any idea of Army Life. Any Army Officer up to the rank of Col is only able to make is both ends meet and too with hardships of serving at far off places, away from his family. All these officers do not have have any access to non-accountable budgets and unlimited powers to cheat or loot any one. The comments by some of the above are realy derogatory for all those who are serving for the country with hardships not known to civilins.

Real Money replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 02:52 PM PST 

In fact their is no use of cursing the army.
They did not come from Israel. They did not come from India. They are our brothers, our fathers and our children.
We are Pakistanis and they are also Pakistanies.
If your lea gives you trouble or your arm pains than no use of cursing the arm or leg.

The valid discussion is that
1)How America, India, Saudi Arabia and almost all other countries managed that military stays away from the politics or what measure we should take to avoid military takeover permanently?

One proposal is that which is suggested by NawaZ sharief that military people should take oath that they will disobey any orders to takeover the government.

Other is that there should be special sizable force to protect the government.


2) How we can reduce the defense spending and use that money to uplift our country. How to bring the justice for the poor, how to eradicate the illiteracy and to eliminate the poverty and how to solve the food and health problems.

One proposal is that which is suggested by NawaZ sharief that military people should take oath that they will disobey any orders to takeover the government.

Other is that there should be special sizable force to protect the government. Military should think 10 times of the armed resistance in case of any takeover proposal.

Ali3 replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 03:17 PM PST 

Aamir, i have personally seen officers of even major level wasting resoruces, taking kickbacks, and even talking of joining the army just for the immense ammount of luxuries, facilities, benefits, etc., not for the cause of love for country, or for serving for it's defense, as they publiclly claim.

Ok, even if we agree that officers up to Col level do not have unaccountable funds (although it's not true), the officers above Col level make up for this. Where else do you think the budget of Pakistan is going for the past 60 years??? Now they claim they cannot defend Pakistan against even the unmanned predator aircraft!

What hardships you are talking about? In other countries, where serving is mandatory, parents pay bribes or in some extreme cases even injure themselves so that they can be excused. In Pakistan it's the OPPOSITE! Why? There is a lot of public relations misinformation about army in this country, and it should be clear in people's minds that these people are together with the worst looters. I am not saying they are the only ones. But they should stop fooling us now under their disguise of an innocent lamb.

ali11 replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 03:53 PM PST 

@ Ali3,

quite a crap you speak. I bet you don't have the slightest idea about army. stop bullshshting around.

arsu replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 04:33 PM PST 

I just wanted to share a news which sounded quite unusual to me.I have high respect for the army and one should not be that harsh to them.It was just our system that i wanted to focus on.But one thing is beyound any debate that more or less they remain unaccountable for whatever they do. General Niazi surrenders in the Pelton field to Gen.Arora and passes all his life in Pakistan whithout being subjected to any kind of accountability.

Eye-blinker replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 06:20 PM PST 

Dear Arsu

Puppets remain unaccounted; what about those who pull-up & play the strings?

Ali3 replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 09:45 PM PST 

Ali11:
Stop your cheap ghunda gardi, black mail and threats of past 60 years. Why dont you mention facts and figures rather than every time resort to cheap ghunda gardi? You afriad?

Ali3 replied on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 09:49 PM PST 

Ali11: probably you are some agency guy paid salary from the money meant to be for education for Pakistani children, sitting at the computer monitoring posts that send shivers down your spine! What will you do? Make me a missing person? Inshallah i'll die with my head up but will not bow to your yazidism.

abj replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:44 AM PST 

(1) Facts is, as someone rightfully mentioned, the salary /perks are really not too compatable upto the rank of a Col. They bearly make ends meet, and I know that from a few close relatives and friends of mine. These people have nothing to do with toppling govts. and policy making. They obey the superiors, as trained and do what they are paid to do, actually for a very low compensation package comparatively.

(2) Facts is, Pakistan really does not need that big of an Army. We need to divert some of those funds towards education, healthcare, infrastructure and other social issues.

(3) Brigadiers and above have good compensation packages, and so is the case with civilians as well. Especially during Military rule, which unfortunately has been majority of the time since indepencdence, Brig.and above by Military ruler had to be well compensated to keep them part of the
team. Pakistan needs to do away with these perks for all these high ranking civilian and army personnel. Pay a reasonable salary and do away with the retirement packages. These are not sustainable in this day & age. Borrow money on high interest and then give it out in retirement benefits to them is really not smart. There are better ways of doing it.

IMPORTANT FACT is, as an educated pakistani, we must respect our armed forces personnel and portray the same to others for the common good of all. If some day, a balance is established between military spending and funding for other social issues, we should all be proud of our disciplined armed forces, and think ten times before criticising them. It will get us nowhere. These are people just like us, who chose that profession, but due to unfortunate military take overs, are perceived as "we the common people" against "them the ruling class". Among most of my friends I know from college, the ones in the forces are always in a financial crunch, and most can barely afford a vehicle of their own, unless they had an opportunity to go serve for a year or so overseas for the UN forces etc., and then they buy a suzuki Alto, that they can only drive with CNG.(These are all col. and under ranks). Compare the Brigadier to your Provincial or Federal Secretary, and you will find a lot of resemblance there in compensation. Not just army, but they all need to be compensated proportionately based upon job functions, keeping in view the per capita income of Pakistan.

Ali3 replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 06:44 PM PST 

abj: i also know army people, even low rank officers. you are not even in Pakistan. people in Pakistan know how these people loot! I am not saying they are worse than civilian leaders/politicians/bureaucrats. you don't know what's going on inside the army. even after they retire they have enough power to do cheap ghunda gardi where ever they go.

also, please dont make army "sacred"! over the years we have been deliberately programmed/brainwashed into thinking they are sacred.

Ali3 replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 06:56 PM PST 

ok, this time it came to me in two chunks rather than three, isn't that an improvement?

we cannot justify corruption by army people by saying that civilian federal secretaries are also corrupt. the difference is that army behaves like they are sacred angels. also, even is the small ranking officer does a small level corruption, that's not justifiable. the facilities they get for life is not justifiable. all Pakistanis are equally Pakistanis and everybody should get the same facilities. in fact, i can say the ordinary cobbler or hawker is more patriotic to Pakistan than the army officer, they have done more for Pakistan, and if any more service is needed, he is always ready to offer more to Pakistan.

even if hypothetically we agree that the low ranking army officer does small scale corruption, the people who have posted above have themselves mentioned that the high ranking ones do corruption on a big scale. not only it's big, it compensates by several times the low rank officers. so what difference does it make to the common man of Pakistan? If a 100 Billion was taken by a thousand low rank officers, or by a hundred high rank officers? This argument does not make sense.

They are not sacred, they are not respectable, they know it too. They make a fool from us by demanding sacred respect as if they are of another race altogether. In fact, they are arrogant too.

Real Money replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 09:32 PM PST 

Dear Ali3

If what you said is 100% true even than spreading hate for the Army will not help anyone but India only. India wanted this.

Please understand that we need reforms in Army but do not need hatred for army.

On the other hand all the army is not corrupt just as all the politicians are not corrupt.

Ali3 replied on Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:34 PM PST 

Best way to cure an illness is to recognize the disease first. No use hiding our faces behind false pride, false dignity, false independence. Nobody is fool in this world. In fact, the biggest foolishness is to think of others as fools.

abj replied on Friday, October 31, 2008 12:16 PM PST 

Ali3,
The corruption I am referring to is mostly the Pawari, Tehsildaar, Govt. official, Police or in sarkari Daftar asking for bribe and is a norm, just like in any other developing country. I have never experienced, nor heard a serving officer getting bribes. I am sure there are bad apples, but have you ever had a first hand experience, like a "Major Saab"asking for a bribe? Unless the desired "special treatment" for serving and retired army personnel is what you are referring to as corruption? Or like a Retired Brigadier Saab trying to use the VIP lounge in islamabad, a serving major saab does not need to stand in line like the rest, or dont stop at a police check post etc. Those are different issues, and more or less, are universal issues throughout the world that comes with money or power, even in the west. Life unfortunately, overall, is unfair. I dont think that special golf courses or ski facilities for the fauji's alone is fair, and should have a difefrent criteria then being just a fauji or a relative of high ranking civil servant. Those are different issues.

Actually, its not just that we have been brainswashed. The little I know about some of the developed world, it is considered extremely bad talking anything negative about their armed forces for a good reason. During times of crisis, they come together as a nation under one flag, with support for their govt. and forces. Somehow, I feel sometimes, a lot of us pakistanis want to correct things thru unwarranted criticism & in a negative manner, and it starts from our school days in pakistan, as we are taught that way in school. Positive Re-inforcemnt can do wonders.

Ali3 replied on Friday, October 31, 2008 02:32 PM PST 

i was talking about actual corruption, bribes, kickbacks, etc.

also, am i spreading hate? or the people who usurp other peoples destinies create hate for themselves? army people are also Pakistanis. I love all Pakistanis more than my life!

However, did the army come forward to solve the countries crises? They just come in after the ten odd years to loot, citing reasons that five to ten years were for civilians to loot, now it's our turn. They call themselves angels, the people with a conscience, people who have come to make the system all right in Pakistan. Those are the reasons they give to justify take over. But what do they do? They also loot in the same manner. Also, as you can see from Musharaf's and Ayub's rule, they like to create a ruling mafia class, and then protect them, and all with the people of Pakistan's money. Why does anyone think they deserve more than others? Why is there so much arrogance and the love for elitism in our society? Musharraf wrongly created the impression that there are two classes in Pakistan, the moderates and the extremists. If you analyze, like i have, you'll see that there are two classes in Pakistan, the 2% elites and the 98% non elites (have nots, slaves). Surprisingly, non-Pakistanis and non-Muslims have highlighted these things more than Pakistanis.

i don't want change through negativity, but I'll also not be a hypocrite and deny the truths just for the sake of positivity. I think change can come through honest people entering politics.

Even then Pakistan best replied on Saturday, November 1, 2008 08:43 PM PST 

100% agree with Ali3,

There is two nation theory in Pakistan. Army and Civilians.

If any one want to have expereince just go to any cantonment without having cantt pass and do not mention your relation to any army officer.

Then let us know.

Kind Regards

abj replied on Sunday, November 2, 2008 05:09 PM PST 

Do you suggest that the cantonment area should be open for everyone, and nobody should ask people their business going in or out of cant area? Try going into army facilities in the west, and you may be surprised, where the security situation is pretty good, and they also possess advanced screening techninques. Cantt security is more lax then actually a small private software development building in the US, where you cannot enter without a key card or pass, even if you work there. Is that because there is a Class ystem there?

(though I seriously doubt), but, if someone thinks Army has good benefits, why not join the Army?

A friend of mine joined a big compamny and is now a VP operations. I choose to do something else. Now his perks and previlages are probably ten times better than mine. We pretty much possess same credentials. Should I feel bad that he has a better life style than mine and its not fair. He is now the upper class because he has access to a corporate jet, but I dont, and should have the same previlage, since we both have same credentials?

Pakistan is best replied on Monday, November 3, 2008 03:12 AM PST 

Its not point of security its Army personals attitude towards civilians its just like Gora was dealing with Indians.

If you tell them you are guest or relative of ABC Cap/Maj/Col they totally changed.

This is the point I was refering.

PS: I pray you may have access to jet as well but do not see noraml people as ANTS.

abj replied on Monday, November 3, 2008 03:43 AM PST 

Thnakyou for wishing me well, and a corporate jet.

So i guess we dont have a class system, but a perception and attitude adjustment issue on both sides. Armed personnel are trained a different way than a Retail Outlet Manager whose job is to please and sell the product for the owner and make him a profit. Although courtesy would be nice, but is rare in Govt. Orgainisatiosn on that level everywhere in the world. You get different treatment when you buy a product in a competative environment than when you go get your passport or Identification renewed. Its not different than waiting in a line at an airport when your immigration documents are being checked, and you are asked questions for the reason of your visit, docements etc. and happens anywhere in the world.
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(36747)
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 09:02 PM PST 
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(36746)
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 08:40 PM PST 

I have submitted my application for University Town before July 24, 2008.

Since 3 months are over I could not receive any reply from STARMARKETING or Khyber Housing Society islamabad.

Any information will be greatly appreciated.

Thank U

Mahmood

abj replied on Friday, October 31, 2008 01:33 PM PST 

Khyber Housing Society, Souk-al-Hashir Plaza, Office # 4-6, First Floor, F-10 Markaz, Islamabad.
Phone:
Fax:
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