Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(74852)
Friday, July 1, 2016 08:53 PM PST 
Wealth Tax in Pakistan

Request for the Forum Members who are more in taxation, Is Wealth Tax in place in Pakistan? It was there in 1990s and then was abolished,
Is it in Place now if So at what rate and what Brackets.

I am an overseas Pakistani, Have No problem in proving all my money white. There is No Income Tax Payable. I guess in Budget Govt made it mandatory for Filers to disclose the assets but up to my understanding there was no wealth tax. Is Filing need to be done even if there is no Tax payable?

For The people who don't know basics Overseas are exempted from Income Tax, but they have to show source like salary statement etc,


Over seas are NOT EXEMPTED from
Property Tax
Income from Business in Pakistani
Withholding Tax on Profit or savings in Pakistan
Gain Tax
CVT
With holding Tax on transections
Wealth tax

User_528® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 09:52 PM PST 

Habib for your question around "s Filing need to be done even if there is no Tax payable?". Yes filing needs to be done. you will just declare you received overseas income of say 50lacs and than indicate tax exempt income also as 50lacs.

i did it few months ago for last year and no issues in audit and it went fine.

User_6006® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 10:03 PM PST 

i want to ask a simple Q , i studied in private school,college,univ, i went to private hospital for medical treatment , i never get a penny from govt , i gave tax from toothpaste to gold leaf ,

govt not able to give me security or job , i am jobless , my father was in pvt bank though it was once govt but pmln sold it , my father gave me bit of money which i am using to live and now was thinking to invest this money in property and this tax issue arrived , i am non filer , i have no job , how i can become filer by selling my kidney ?? please advice me as non filer taxes are too much high . please tell in easy to understand way :)

Habib (Plz Register) replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 10:42 PM PST 

Dear User, I don't know which world you are living one of my friend who is living and working in UAE for 10 years is paying about 30 Lac Tax/ Year to US Govt.
Interestingly his due will be even more but other than his Job he opened a Fake Laundry in UAE, showed his wife as Manager and some fake workers though he has to pay rent and License fees, He is Showing Loss in Laundry for last 6 years and showing lesser Taxable income to fall in Lower Bracket.
Another Friend when was Living in UK as Doctor was earning Lot of money in Locum working very hard 7 days a week, he had opened a Company in Home showing wife as secretary and son as Driver Car on Lease and he was changing rent in his own home, he was also showing loss to Company to decrease net income.
UK Citizens have not to file Tax out of Country but US Citizens have to

Szaidi® replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 01:40 PM PST 

There is no wealth tax at the moment but you have to sumbit wealth statement every year together with income statement. And the wealth showed in wealth statement shall match with your income statement. That is called white money transaction in pakistan.Tax is implied on income statement but overseas pakistani have exemptiin if they bring money via banking channel for which they would gave proof from bank to show that money came from outside pakistan.
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(74851)
Friday, July 1, 2016 05:46 PM PST 

The ultimate solution for overseas Pakistanies is to sell properties and move money to offshore accounts because if you sell before 5 years, will be paying 10% and if keep more than 2 years, paying 10%. And finally if plan to construct, pay 10% before starting construction. So it is a chess check made by GOVT for us. In reality we overseas canot run any any active business. I remember in 1998 NS GOVT started a campaign against HUNDI transfer which was good but they also freez forign currency accounts and blocked all the ways of money to get in Pakistan. Till today Pakistan canot rebuild trust to keep forign currwncy in Banks. Now this is same suicide attempt from GOVT. If they want to bring overseas in tax network then should define a formal procedure and we will follow. But the way they are implementing it will impact forign remittance which already reduced due to recent job cuts in GCC.
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(74850)
Friday, July 1, 2016 05:39 PM PST 
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(74848)
Friday, July 1, 2016 04:52 PM PST 

To all overseas pakistanis : i dont think there are many countries in the world where you can buy a property , sell it im three years at double the price and not pay any capital gains tax. In fact, there are some countries, like US, which require citizens to report and pay capital gains taxes on property sales wherever it is in the world (after deducting any taxes paid in the country whete the property is held). There is no concept whatsoever of non market rates - it is always supposed to be done at non market rates. Dubai is an exception as it has no income or capital gains taxes - this is an attraction of Dubai , which has hardly any indigenous population and needed to give something attractive for the world to come there.

Even in Dubai, there is a 4 percent transfer charge on the actual market value of property at the time of transfer.


As for western countries the rates are much higher.

So please stop crying and applaud a bold and rational step by the governmnet to increase Pakistans tax to gdp ratio.

Aa replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:56 PM PST 

Sorry for typo - i meant always done at MARKET rates.

Also, to say that rulers are corrupt and therefore taxes are unjust is a ridiculous argument. By that logic no onr should ever pay any tax and the givernment should shut down.will overseas pakistanis then step in to pay the salaries of the hundreds of thousands of army jawans, teachers, and doctors employed by the government?

Grow up guys.

User_20873® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:57 PM PST 

Mr. Aa

You pay the tax and enjoy the facilities in return. When rulers don't pay tax and their children are doing business outside the country, why we should. What we get in return of our taxes.

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:58 PM PST 

People are more concerned on sudden increases. No one deny paying tax

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:01 PM PST 

Not even a good hospital in lahore where you can get treatment after retirement or in old age

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:10 PM PST 

Again. No one deny paying tax but the mechanism. People were already paying a tax of around 100,000 on tranfer for each DHA Plot . You can make it 200,000 this year and go on. People are more concerned on the methadology.

Szaidi® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:13 PM PST 

Everybody will pay taxes if rulers also pay the tax. I am paying tax more than all of these minsters. Is my income is more than that. Not at all. This create rebellion attitude. The facilities available in returns for a common man is pathetic. Every ruling party has made it simple. Earn money via corruption and send it outside Pakistan. Every Pakistani loves his country and wanted prosperity of this country but when they see un justice they cry.

Aa replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:13 PM PST 

786 i understand your point. Most people are not complaining about that, they are talking about cirruption of sharifs. As it is by the way declaring a sale at dc rate and paying tax on that was ILLEGAL in my understanding. The dc rate was supposed to be a minimum rate and transfer was to be recorded and paid for at actual transfer price.

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:16 PM PST 

Government itself take benifit of DC value if they buy plot for some road or bridge. What do you say about that? isnt it unfair?

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:19 PM PST 

Last year they had rule that after 2 years you have to pay 5% tax on DC Rate. I kept it for two years and this year they made it 10% . Now i have to keep it for 3 more years? Who will answer my concerns and policies made last year?

User_6006® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:22 PM PST 

Aa come in pakistan with all u have than do this chutter putter and stood with it , untill thn getout of here

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:24 PM PST 

Next year they can change it to 6 years and i will be after that truck ki batti.......if i pay tax then do i have any rights as well? or should i pay like a slave because i live in a country which is ruled by them?

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:30 PM PST 

Justice is if you have bought a property last year then last year rules apply if you are buying this year then this year rule applies. They change rules as and when required because they have spent money on metros and orange train. At buying there are different rules and now when i will sell i have different laws. Dont you think i deserve to know laws applicable to my buying? or should they change with time just because goverment has empty pockets?

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:41 PM PST 

Thanks for understanding .I am salaried person and my tax is deducted from source. I will wait for 3 more years before i sale it. Allah knows what will be tax laws at that time. I will be living on rent and will be paying taxes on empty plot to punjab givernment from this year. It is no less than slavery . Belive me !!!

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:16 PM PST 

I am not blaming anyone but why all nationalists people are not using registered nick? :) You are doing a great job by persuing people to pay tax. It would be good if you also use registered nicks so we are sure that it is not same person commenting with different nicks

AhmetKildir® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:34 PM PST 

@Ahmed786 Votes bhi jali, IDs bhi jali. ;)

Asad-Ali replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 07:03 PM PST 

Ask Mr Dar to calculate the worth of Raiwand Palace/FormHouse according to current market rate in surrounding societies and then send them property Tax.

As soon as these Ganjey will pay this tax on their property which they built from black money, no one on this forum will have any problem to pay even 15% CGT.

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 08:55 PM PST 

NT dont worry , fbr and excise are working in back dates . They will look at all transactions done in last 5 years for filers and 10 years for non filers. I wish you get a chance to pay all the taxes in back dates :)

Bilal® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 09:04 PM PST 

@AhmetKilder very well said.

MIT® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:42 PM PST 

@Aa...Come and live in the 'mess', be more loyal than the kings as there are 'many' now a d days devoid of facts and harsh realities being faced by a common man in Pakistan. Feel heat where it burns.

Aa replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 12:41 AM PST 

Mit, firstly as i said i am living in the mess. Second of all, if u think people who sell properties for multiple crores can be considered the "common man", you are delusional. These are highly privileged people who have benefited immensely from the government, not least because of the governments
Infrastructure spending wjich has helped their own properties. Now someone will say dha doesnt get infratsructure spending... Really? What about the ring road interchanges planned arounf dha? Ehat about ring road itself? What about 200 billion rupees which government paid to buy landfor orange line?

Act like adults please

Tariq Iqbal Khan replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:07 PM PST 

Dear Aa, I can tell your age... you are below 30 for sure...a so-called adult, but not really mature enough! You only know a quarter of the reality...but you don't know the remaining two thirds... Kindly learn to see things from all aspects... This advice may help you grow up as a true adult!
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(74846)
Friday, July 1, 2016 04:32 PM PST 
Dear members

Every body is saying that if you hold ur property for more than 5 years that u r not effectee of new taxes imposed by government. What about property tax which punjab government is imposing on empty plots . This is another tax on all empty plots under definition of proprty tax.

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:00 PM PST 

You never know if they change it next year that it will on 6 years. No one is answerable
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(74845)
Friday, July 1, 2016 04:31 PM PST 
What is going to happen ?

What is going to happen?
For Last 2 days there has been excellent contribution by the forum members. Some are panic, some are in denial still, some believe let the prices come down it will give them chance to grab some property at bargain rates.
Dealers are unhappy too but some think that last one two months there was silence in prism sector and correction may help to match sellers and buyers.
Lets see investor by investor and later sector by sector how the effect will be.
First thing in general the Hype will be Corrected a bit, may be about 15 to 20 % in general .

Biana Investors will still not find difficult to continue working, In Current deals they are middle man and not shown as seller or Buyer even they are reluctant to put their name in witness so they will be still safe, There may be more disputes that they could not sell the property in given biana period and that is usual and there will be some reversal of deals if market goes dull in next 6 months they will be very cautions, Mostly they will grab the property at very low rates or on Fake Biana Papers.

Open File Business may continue for a while, though Govt may take some action as already it is “semi illegal” or there may be more requirements by the Societies to deposit Cash Guarantee that if Transfer is not completed then they will complete themselves. Some small societies can open the option of 3 party biana the office can be a party in biana to keep a copy in file and to mediate [That can a very good loop hole and can help to keep prices stabilized]
File Traders Life will be most difficult, I was also fascinated by this Fair business. The game revolves around the fact the affidavit file are transferred cheaper, they are not sure in time scale and till some legal formalities completed can’t be transferred, The Time to transfer ranges from 1 month to 3 month and sometimes never [In few cases]. Deals are done on nominal token and highly prone to market Fluctuation. End use eg overseas almost never take these files as transfers can’t be completed in short time. It is cake of only investors sitting in Market who know that these files will be cleared in so many days they sometimes reach even Patwar Khana to make sure that this affidavit is likely to be cleared., Once cleared and Converted to allocation they sell in 3 to 40 Lac Profit depending upon holding power.

End user will the most lucky to enjoy the scenario although they will pay a bit more tax but enjoy buying properties 10,15 Lac Cheaper and finally whole markets should be based on end users.

Which properties will affected more??
All the Properties with more investor ratio will be prone to these changes

Most effect will come on files and Commercials Files as these are highly dependent on Flow of the money and investor ratio is too high, the fall in price will be gradual not like stock.

The Effect on properties in pipeline will be intermediate Like prism, 1/3 should already have reached the end user and 70% still with investor so in coming 12 months gradual correction will be there upto 2 million in average.

In ready properties like DHA 7, 6,8 will also not be immune but will have less effect. DHA 7 was spiking until last week may only be able to consolidate gain or even a bit of reverse like 1 million.
Phase 1 to 5 will hardly be affected but will stop growing for time being.

Looks the Panic will be over in one year time and business will resume as usual , People will find loop holes will Convert their money to white paying some tax, will be used to paying taxes, More schemes will open Loop Holes like open or registered Bianas etc or some revision of these rates will be there by Govt as happened in Past.

Finally I will say real estate is back bone on Country economy no matter Pakistan UK or US. So Govt should have not imposed so many changes so rapidly not know the percussions

saif replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:57 PM PST 

it is indeed a realistic analysis however these are only internal factors and without any relevance to international events. oversees or more likely to come back more than ever before due to british immigration problems and similar problems being faced by oversees in US.If these people are reverting back where would they go, straight to ready properties. after all such taxes could not reduce property rates in any other country . unless population decreases some how, no factor can stop property from increasing its
prices. but it has to be real property not files etc. Those getting out of file bussiness will not find it easy to switch profession and invest suddenly some where else rather still hang around with ready properties. sellers would get conscious too, and those who can hold will continoue to hold property till 5 years.it will finally be again the end user who would have to pay more like other commodities when government levies new tax. speculations would dies . real property would go up and files bussiness and commercial money even might be diverted to residential properties being basic need.

Arif M® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:42 PM PST 

Most realistic analysis so far I have read.

Saif, It is highly unlikely that people settled in US/UK/Canada will come back to Pakistan. Even with all difficulties they find their future safer over there. This is harsh reality. And even if any come back then most probably they will already have few properties in Pakistan. So in case they come back they ll need to earn here and to do that they need to do business and for that they need capital. Either they bring capital from abroad or they get capital by selling the properties they already have in Pak. Second case has higher chances. So this factor will increase sellers - not buyers.

Middle east expats do not have citizenship over there. In case of bad circumstances there their first wish would be to move Canada/US/UK/Australia. If they cannot do that they will come back to Pak. Again they will be jobless and they either need to find job or start some business. For business they need need to bring out their saving. And as I mentioned earlier in Pakistan people save only in 1 thing that is property. So again this factor will also generate selling pressure.

Regarding residence, majority of expats in middle east already have homes here. and In case of Western expats they will need to make homes (either in their existing properties or they ll buy properties in matured areas).

All in All sellers numbers will be great as compared to buyers. So even if we consider these factors the analysis done in above post remains intact.

saif replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 07:06 PM PST 

Arif it is realist doubtlessly. however dependent on many variables too. if we see how properties been matured after facing many regulations in west .we can see which direction it is going to go with black money out of market, the vacume will be filled by banks with extreme low interest rates through mortgage and yet people will make houses. They may not purchase
files but would definitely go to on ground properties. it is ages old and basic need . any amount of toughness cannot put people out of this basic need. it was only week or two ago that Pakistan embassy had reached agreement with Dubai based company for having exhibition on Pakistani property and if Government allows to buy property in Pakistan by foreigners and develop it the dimension would be different. what you need is just another news and see the surge responding to ever increasing demands of housing Pakistan.If i am in iron bussiness wont i promote it finally before leaving the Government. in panic if some one sell he would be at great loss. wait untill government gives news which would trigger house making activity.further more why dc rates are lower than market there seems no plausible reason. the only thing it was that patwari had no secondary institution which could challenge his rates. dc rates would come to market level too. and it the end it would be even out.

Therefore wait and wait until another news is there we would dispell every thing and start following each other. property dealers would find it a bit difficult to bluff seller and buyers now and selling on biana etc would be marginalized.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 03:35 AM PST 

Dear Admin, this Post was By me and by mistake different name is showing pls correct.
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(74844)
Friday, July 1, 2016 04:09 PM PST 
New Taxes on Property

New Taxes will be imposed on all deals since 2006.
Source Jang News

SIM replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:20 PM PST 

What is this???

User_14695® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:44 PM PST 

What is the kala dhan ? Overseas money is also kala dhan ? What's going on in Pakistan .

overthesea® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:04 PM PST 

Govt is playing game they are testing what is the breaking point of people by putting extra burden at one point people will say ok that much % is okay that is the point which dar and his
team keeping in mind.

Same thing happened last year when Dar applied 0.6 with holding tax then where it stopped.

Its upto us how much strongly we can stand especially overseas Pakistanis

Jameel Mughal® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:38 PM PST 

I agree with overseas, I Think eventually there will be some bargain, BLACK MONEY is not all illegal or Haram or money earned by Drug Mafia etc It is money of all people me and you. Because for last 70 ys Govt of Pakistan Focus were direct taxes Like You Buy 100 Rs UFONe Card and Pay 24 rs Tax, You get 10 liter petrol and pay 15% tax. In the Transition period these rates are too harsh.
@ User 14695 Over seas money is Not Kala Dhan, you need to produce evidence that it was transferred via this legal Channel and may also Produce Bank statement of Your overseas account.

Not registered yet replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 08:01 PM PST 

This news is only for those cases which will be selected for audit by FBR. it is not practically possible to apply this rule for millions of deals completed in the past. Actually I think some people are just spreading these kind of news for their own vest interests. Creating so much confusion about tax laws that no one could understand what to do??
So please stay calm and let's see what happened in coming few days.

Z.DOGAR® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 08:01 PM PST 

This news is only for those cases which will be selected for audit by FBR. it is not practically possible to apply this rule for millions of deals completed in the past. Actually I think some people are just spreading these kind of news for their own vest interests. Creating so much confusion about tax laws that no one could understand what to do??
So please stay calm and let's see what happened in coming few days.

Hawks Eyes replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 12:57 AM PST 

What the Hell is this?I dont know what this government wants increase in taxes cvt,CGT,10% TAX on property sale within 5 year,Now what this shit.This Government is just want to make money.All there asserts are in foreign countries and by imposing taxes on poor people of pakistan they enjoyed with their money.ISHAQ DAR,Nawaz Shreef we hate you,We hate you shareef family.I were suporter of PML N but now when i came to know about their real faces ,i hate them.
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(74843)
Friday, July 1, 2016 04:08 PM PST 

Dear Lre;
Please evaluate my plot 1 kanal ,near B-815, Prism. Its next to phase 5 , M block

LRE® replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 07:59 PM PST 

Dear jahangir Sb,

Prism near B 815 is valued around 85 lacs



SALMAN MAQSOOD
+923224009967
LAHORE REAL ESTATE
EMAIL:INFO@LREPK.COM
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(74842)
Friday, July 1, 2016 04:05 PM PST 
HELP: Is Ovcz Pakistani Required To Be Filer in Pakistan?

Dear Friends
I left Pakistan 10 yrs back. All my service in Pakistan I paid regular income tax from my salary and I have NTN No also.
Now I am in UAE for 10 yrs and not filing my Tax returns. Can anyone help me to understand:

1- Is it must for me to be filer in Pakistan while I am earning in UAE?

2- If must, how to be filer?

3- Once filer, how to show Govt during plot purchase that I am filer and how to claim my benefits as filer?

Thank you all. I'm very upset coz dont know abt it.

Rgrds

Jameel Mughal® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:58 PM PST 

https://propakistani.pk/2015/11/05/pakistanis-guide-to-filing-tax-returns-online/

pls explore and Let us Know as well

Z.DOGAR® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 08:08 PM PST 

according to tax laws if any Pakistani citizen resides in any other country for more than 6 months and he has enough proof for his living outside Pakistan than no problem. just write an application describing proper reasons to your tax officer for not filling your returns in-time, and also if u want to be a filler submit your last five years returns online as early as possible. If u r abroad there will be no penalty applied to u.
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(74841)
Friday, July 1, 2016 02:57 PM PST 
Protest

If there's anything you can really do to make these thieves revert their decisions, protest. Protest on this forum, on other forums and let your friends, relatives and media know what you really think. I have approached Khaleej Times where I will try to post my views on this day light robbery. I'm willing to give all my Pakistani property to charity but in choron ko mazeed ek rupee nahi doonga. Please scroll over if you disagree.

Usama Javed® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:09 PM PST 

Strongly Agreed. I'm in..

User_19762® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:13 PM PST 

Khaleej times is good and they will cover story

Tell me how you approached them so same I can do

Farhan_29® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:13 PM PST 

Jang e azadi ko face book pe itna share karo k engraiz hindustan chor k bhag jaye. Bhai mere hokoch nhi ho ga. U already know wht on banking transactiOn. Os ka kya hoa.

AhmetKildir® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:19 PM PST 

I went to their offices directly. But do give them a call at least.

Khaleej Times Offices
(UNITED ARAB EMIRATES)

Head Office, Al Quoz, Dubai P.O. Box 11243
+
+


Abu Dhabi
P.O. Box 3082
+
+

Deira
Mazda Car Showroom.bldg
Office No. 223, 2nd floor
Galadari R/A, Deira, Dubai.
+
Khaleej Times Representative Offices

Millennium Media, Karachi.
+

Qatar
Asas Trading Co., Doha
+

Oman
United Media Services, Muscat Ruwi
+

UK Mediascope Publicitas
+
+

Naveed@786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:46 PM PST 

110% agreed. We should need to take all necessary steps to up our voices on all forums otherwise these theifs will not understand they are going in wrong direction. This is freely voilation of fendemental rights of people. It's just a theft crime like house breaking overnight.

Bilal® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:15 PM PST 

Stop sending money to pakistan untill they notice.
Just send money to support your family and boycott all other trasaction.

Poors are dying in pak due to lack of basic healthcare problems.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1264563


And they are making more n more offshore companies with our tax money

Bilal® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:17 PM PST 

Stop sending money to pakistan untill they notice.
Just send money to support your family and boycott all other trasaction.

Poors are dying in pak due to lack of basic healthcare problems.

And they are making more n more offshore companies with our tax money

User_20873® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:32 PM PST 

All overseas Pakistanis should stop sending remittances till government take some measures to differentiate between Pakistani non filers and overseas Pakistanis non filers. Govt should give incentives to the overseas Pakistanis.

User_6006® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:26 PM PST 

Please search ishaq dar on facebook and send him harsh message for this day light robbery .

AhmetKildir® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:32 PM PST 

Good to see people supporting the protest are registered 'real' people.

I just spoke to 7days newspaper, let's see if they take this story.

Dilawar replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:00 PM PST 

totally agreed. We all should protest. Raise your voices Stand against this injustice ! totally failure of this Government.

User_18559® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:01 PM PST 

@Ahmet, I agree and can join you in Dubai to register this protest.

Kind regards,

Khurram® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:12 PM PST 

I know I should not be saying this but our nation deserves this Govt because there are people who voted for them and still support them. They are not willing to accept how corrupt this clan is

overthesea® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:18 PM PST 

I just called khaleej times office looks like because of Friday they are closed so I will suggest everyone to call khaleej times on the working day tomorrow.

Ahmet by the way gulf news is anti Pakistan and khaleej times is pro paki what u suggest for calling gulf news also I know it does not sound good but there is no other good options

overthesea® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 06:20 PM PST 

I just called khaleej times office looks like because of Friday they are closed so I will suggest everyone to call khaleej times on the working day tomorrow.

Ahmet by the way gulf news is anti Pakistan and khaleej times is pro paki what u suggest for calling gulf news also I know it does not sound good but there is no other good options

Nadeem25® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 09:32 PM PST 

bhai jaan you need to understand where the world is moving there is 47 percent tax in usa canada over income of any sort when you dont pay how will your country progress and develop please dont give the reason that the tax money is eaten up by politicians two wrongs does not make one right , everybody knows the black money is being pumped in realestate and it is the safest way to hoard your money in the name of your wife or childrens so this is theft , lets get ready to pay and not weep and put things right if we pay than it should be invested rightly and the system and strict punishments to corruption can save tax moneys moreover it is time to bundle up these politicians into tax net they are the real thiefs pakistan is already a tax heaven estate with only 7 percent tax imposed on your income and virtually no tax on big gains in property buying so i am in favor of tax with strict measures against corruption thanks

MIT® replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 08:30 AM PST 

@Nadeem25..So self contradictory; asking to pay taxes no matter what at any rate for the "progress of the country" and same time to "bundle up these politicians...the real thiefs(thieves)". What a brilliant formula? Can you discipline these VIP rulers who are above the law in lawless land. Taxes are paid happily by the citizens where they have trust in their leadership..there is none at all here.
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(74840)
Friday, July 1, 2016 01:02 PM PST 
CGT

Salam
Everyone seems to be confused like me , will CGT be on plot price or profit? in stock market cgt is given on profit, can someone please shed light on this matter.
Thanks

User_6006® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 01:22 PM PST 

everyone should go to facebook and search ishaq dar and than copy paste this message to his inbox or wall

you son of a pig , thief , corrupted person who admitted money laundering in past, who were you a moonshi , now doing day light robbery with people of Pakistan on name of taxes you are robbing people , people should drag this pig in street and shoot him .may ALLAH curse you .

MALIK® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 01:53 PM PST 

In its true sense the meaning of CGT means tax on profit gains, but as NOORA LEAGUE are a bunch of idiots you.never know what they will make out of it

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:02 PM PST 

Before 1 Jul 2016 i.e. from 1 Jul 2015 to 30 Jun 2016 the CGT was 10% for sale within 1 year and 5% for sale within 1-2 year and 0% for sale after 2 years. Now CGT is 10% for sale within 1-5 years and 0% after 5 years.
Question is? What is CGT? Lets look into the definition of CGT first
"A capital gains tax (CGT) is a tax on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased at a cost amount that was lower than the amount realized on the sale".
So, CGT is paid on the increase in amount at selling compared to buying.
Question is? Before 1 Jul 2016 how CGT is computed? CGT was computed based on the difference to DC value at the buying and selling time. For example, you bought a 10Marla plot in year 2014 at 50 lac [DC values: 30 lac] and within 1 year you sold your plot at 60 lac [DC value: 35 lac]. So you have to pay 10% of the differential i.e. 5 lac which is 50,000 rupees!
So, CGT definition will remain same as it was before, now the only difference is the percentage

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:08 PM PST 

Question is? Is 10% CGT too much? As it was 10% before as well for sale within 1 year?
Not really, 10% CGT is not that high and it will not create any panic. You have to pay 10% on the gains which means you can keep 90% of the gains. Not really, you have to pay 1% withholding but you can claim it back!
Question is? Why there is so much debate and panic?
I believe, it is not the CGT, nor stamp duty nor CVT. The issue will be DC rate Vs Market rate.

Salman.A® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:14 PM PST 

@ khawaja Qasim


CGT was calculated at 10% gains (DC VALUE ) or 2% of DC value which ever is higher.

The case which you presented makes CGT @ 70,000 which is 2% of dc Value as that being higher.

People are panicked because of value of the property

ALI123 replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:15 PM PST 

If the whole market value is taxed at 10% irrespective of whether one has gained or incurred loss, no one would ever buy property in Pakistan.

I don't think this can be the case. And under the very unlikely scenario that it is, you can't call it CGT!

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:19 PM PST 

Question is? What is DC rate and What is Market rate?
DC or deputy commissioner rates are used for valuation of land by LDA (in Lahore). Market rate is don't know? Or Market rate is the rate listed at LRE website :)
Question is? What impact Market rate will create instead of DC rate?
Huge impact! Why? because Market rate is 2-2.5 times of DC rate. You have to pay 2% CVT, 3% Stamp duty, 1% Advance income tax on purhcase. For example, your land purchase DC value is 30 lac you have to pay 6% of DC value in taxes +
Transfer fee + Membership Fee + Membership Form+ Dealer's commission. If you have to pay 6% on Market value, then it is a lot of money!

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:36 PM PST 

Question is? Mr. Salman.A raised very important point 10% or 2% what is this?
CGT was calculated at 10% gains or 2% of DC value whichever is higher. Yes, I was wrong tax should be 70,000 rupees! Why? beacuse 2% of 30 lac is more than 10% of 5 lac [New DC value:35 lac - Old DC value:30 lac]
In keeping with same principle now on, CGT is calculated now at 10% gains or 2% of Market value (not DC value) whichever is higher! At present, I only know its 10% gains lets assume same rule 2% but now on Market value!
Question is? What is the impact of 2% of Market value (as this case is usually higher) ?
You plot has a Market value of 1 crore. When you sell it, you have to pay CGT of 2 lac and 1 lac withholding tax. Impact on seller, yes but not much!

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:46 PM PST 

Question is? Who will be the most sufferers with this tax?
Buyers! from my point of view, if they have to pay 6% tax on Market rate +
Transfer fee + Membership Fee + Membership Form+ Dealer's commission then the amount is roughly 8-9% of buying prices. Means 9 lac rupees on 1 crore plot
Question is? Is there any hope? Any win win situation?
If buyers pay taxes on DC rate (as it is set by provincial government) and seller pay CGT on Market rate (2% of Market Value or 10% Gain, whichever is higher) then its win win situation. No one get harm much!
That's my understanding!

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:06 PM PST 

Question is? By the way, why you said 10% CGT or 2% Market value is not that high? its too much
People already pay 10% withholding on National Saving Schemes, bonds, stocks and shares etc. The reason they didn't protest because if they get profit of 7 lac on Certificates they don't mind paying 70,000 withholding
Question is? What will be the impact of these taxes on property
prices in short, medium and long term!
I will reply soon!

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:29 PM PST 

Question is? You said most sufferers will be new buyers and who else?
New buyers have to pay lot of taxes either on Market rate or increased DC rate [News is that DC rates will be abolished]. So, they will suffer.
Sellers on the other hand have to pay 10% CGT or 2% Market value, whichever is higher. In my previous example as Mr. Salman.A pointed out 2% Market value comes higher. But I believe
"In short run 10% CGT will be lot higher and in long run 2% Market value will be higher"
Properties bought at low price [DC rate at that time] now properties have increased manifold [present Market value]. So, 10% CGT i.e. 10% of [Present Market value - Buying DC rate] will be lot higher than 2% Market value.
For example, if buying DC rate of 1 kanal plot was 50 lac 5 years back and selling Market price now is 200 lac then CGT is 15 lac. Which seems a lot because in government books you gained 150 lacs! Which in actual is not true because you bought property at Market rate not DC rate 5 years ago!
So, in short run 10% CGT will be lot higher seller suffer if they sell within 5 years. In long run, seller buy properties at market rate and sell at market rate. So, 2% of Market value will be most likely!

Shah® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:29 PM PST 

Question is? Is CGT applicable on the differential of buying price and the selling price? Or is it applicable on the market value of property?
Answer is: Logically it should be on the differential of buying and the selling price. However according to all media reports received so far, it is levied on the market value of property.

Question is? CGT levied on DC Rate of property or market value of property?
Answer is Its levied on Market Value of Property

Question is? What does all this mean for a common person holding one or more plots in a housing society like DHA (from Phase 1-8)
Answer is: He will be completely screwed. Because market value of kanal plots in above locations is 2 crore and above. So at the time of sale his CGT alone will be 20 lac and above PLUS the advance tax PLUS CVT and Stamp Duty and membership fees.

Question is? What if govt decides to follow logic and levy CGT only on differential of buying price and the selling price?
Answer is: One will still be screwed because all properties bought till yesterday were declared at DC Value as the buying price in general. So a plot in DHA Phase 1-8 if bought till yesterday was declared to be bought at DC Rate (approx. 70-80 lac) and will be recorded at market value at the time of sale. So the differential will be huge (Current Market Value - DC Rate of last years = Amount on which CGT will be applicable)

Question is? Oooh...looks like we're all screwed.... What do we do now?
Answer is: Elect the same breed of idiots time after time and enjoy the benefits of idiocracy instead of democracy ;D

MIT® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:24 PM PST 

Ageed with Mr. Shah. Current rulers are the most selfish and cruel in their greed & lust. Can only say that ..."Hore Chooopo" to voting for such idiots.
>
(74839)
Friday, July 1, 2016 11:47 AM PST 
DC rates going to be increased too

DC rates going to be increased too with this massive capita gains tax

User_PK9549® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:55 AM PST 

Respected CMY can you please tell me what were the purchaser's CVT and Stamp duty for filler before 1 july?

Salman.A® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 12:08 PM PST 

If DC rate are not going to EXSIST according to the news and new finance act 2016, then why are they increasing DC RATE ?

cvt stamp on dc rate and CGT on ACTUAL RATE ?

hamari government khud kush bomber ban chuki hai.

APNOUN K ANDAR HI PHAT JAYE GI

Lahore_Advise replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 12:23 PM PST 

Babu jee, here we go. Read and share ur feeling. its both for rent and selling plots.

http://www.fbr.gov.pk/budget2016-17/FinanceBill/Finance%20Bills%Final.pdf

AhmetKildir® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 03:00 PM PST 

I will registering my protest against this corrupt government in Khaleej Times. Enough is enough. I'm ready to give all my property to charity but not a penny more to the Panama League.

OmerLodhi® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:47 PM PST 

Would suggest two institutes for charity..shoukat khanam and edhi welfare..and pleAse
update ur account balance with khaleej times too before ànd after charity.
Lives in usa for 20 plus yearß and running a smAll bussiness on 27% gross profit ,i mayself made 70 % net profit in exactly 1 year in lahore mArket .
the reAson of american growth is in creating jobs ,not buying homes...i bought my first home in usA in 2004 and it lost 15% of its vAlue due to be 11 years old home.

AhmetKildir® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:50 PM PST 

@Omer, genius input bro. Impressed. Not
>
(74838)
Friday, July 1, 2016 10:57 AM PST 
NEUTRAL VIEWS

I am reading this forum since yesterday and everyone has something to say. It shows people are panicked and worried about their investment. So am i.

But the way people are trying to deal with this is very immature. Some people are in DENIAL and keep telling themselves that there will be less sellers and more buyers so price can move up. Some people are way too happy with the TAX, not because it will benefit PAKISTAN but their prediction of correction is about to come TRUE, which btw they were telling us for the past one year and rates moved up 100%. Correction based on their views has not come. Correction will be because of unrealistic TAXES on property SALE and PURCHASE. According to them correction will be around 50% ( i do not hold this view ) and price will be more than their first call of correction. ALL in ALL it is just their self satisfaction and they are very open about it on this forum. Almost all of correction lovers are back after a period of few months.

Then there are people who are talking about a common man that he cannot build his house not even 3 marlas etc etc. It looks as if they are dying to give away their properties to the poor man to built their house yet they invest just like any other people and reap benefits.

To provide housing for a poor man is the government JOB and they have taken it further away. It will cost more for the end user to buy a house. As builders will now add CGT, more stamp duty, CVT, WHT as their COST and the COST to buy a house for end user will drastically RISE. On top of that he will again pay CVT STAMP DUTY when the house is transferred in his name.

All around the world properties are out of reach of common people. In first world countries it is out of reach of upper middle class as well. Everyone goes for a mortgage in those countries and over a span of 25 years pay for their house. Not a bad system when housing is out of reach of common people. In Pakistan government can start shariah compliant mortgage or what ever you can call it. This will also help a poor man when he could afford the mortgage and instead of paying for rent all his life he would be saving it in his house or apartment.

Correction even up to extent of 100% will not make it viable for a common man to make a house. it will still cost way more than his earning. ( i am talking about poor man according to this forum )

Trust me common man always finds it difficult to buy a house. Usually after retirement a house is made and their life long dream is fulfilled. You will find example in your surroundings. My grandfather built his house after retirement.

I strongly raise my voice against these unjust TAXES. I want the government to tax me but according to my earning not on the whole lump sum money which i have.

I refuse to let government be partner in my income to the extent of 70%. I am sorry i cannot let government ROB me like this. On 1 Crore sale of plot why should i pay them CGT at face value ? tax me at the difference or income which i generated from sale purchase @ 10% i will be willing to do it. i earn 15 lacs from a plot of 1 crore and give 11.5 lacs to the government ? WHY? i will not let it happen. For this even if i have to hold my property for 5 years i will but will not let government take away my money.

Already government is my partner in my income which i spend everyday to the extent of 25%. If i add on the income tax and property TAX it could move up to 50%. In return i get nothing. I provide for my children's education, medical, security etc etc, which is the governments JOB.

In countries where high taxes are levied you get few things in return. and some how you manage to satisfy yourself against those high taxes. I am unable to satisfy myself against these high taxes in PAKISTAN.

Now i will come to the last point on how to tackle this situation.

At least for me short term investment will be finished unless it is necessary. I will hold my property for longer period of time. As property is not my bread and butter and 70% property which i buy is for long term. Usually up to extent of 3-5 years. for the rest 30% i will be doing nothing until this matter is clear.

I will also take part in raising my voice against these taxes on different forums. Be it legal or protest, i will be part of it.

Right now it a game of wait and see. I cannot offload my holdings as i will be paying same taxes now or after 1 year. so i better stay put and see how things end up and move with the market as market is the best judge of people's sentiment.

NOTE: Stop blaming dealers or black money giants that they hype the market. MARKET is so HUGE that few people cannot hype the market. People who blame others are usually not successful in their lives, they are unable to see their own shortcomings and blame other people for their loss or any negativity in their lives. This is their way for dealing with their own failure.

H Ali replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:32 AM PST 

One of the only sensible piece I read here over the last 2 days. People need to chill and not panic. Panic can only make things worse for them. Over the medium to long run - the gains would still be there driven by strong fundamentals of the country and rapid urbanization. If you think about it, it's probably good that the very short term investors and the people who panic will be removed from the system at the expense of minor correction - and the
prices are bound to come back in the medium to long term given the very strong fundamentals and the case studies of other similar countries. Please stay calm.

MIT® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:32 AM PST 

Sure: this new Tax by the Fed is going to be a big legal tussle under the 18th Amendment of Pakistan's Constitution. Just wait and see. Someone rightly said "they are their own worst enemy"....the history.

User_PK9549® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:49 AM PST 

I just don't know what to say. I love my country but these politicians and so called peoples leaders have made my life miserable in Pakistan. I am paying income tax, sales tax, advance tax, W.H tax, C.V tax, Stamp duties, and being a lay man I don't know what else tax on so many things without having any income. I made an NTN and got myself filed and still i don't know how to save my savings. Having nothing in pocket now i have to worry about getting a lawyer to make a case so that i can get few of these taxes refunded. I don't know some how people are happy here. Wether they are the " MAN KIND ANGELS" here or I am just one selfish man because I am getting poorer day by day.

Nabeel® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 11:53 AM PST 

Some very pertinent points. Thanks for sharing.

Great advice replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 12:24 PM PST 

http://www.fbr.gov.pk/budget2016-17/FinanceBill/Finance%20Bills%Final.pdf

Khurram11® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 12:46 PM PST 

I don't think this is a neutral view at all...in fact more out of panic and lack of understanding. If you have a Rs 1 crore plot and you earned 15 lacs then with CGT@ 10%, how taxes can be 11.5 lacs? CGT is capital gain tax and from its name its obvious it is levied on Income, not on Sale value.

We are fearful of uncertainty and that's why everyone seems to be in so much panic. The end impact won't be that much from all the different taxes being discussed and property
prices won't decrease much in my opinion.

Abdal® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 01:01 PM PST 

@Salman. Good points and views. There are no two argument that CGT is on difference or gain and cannot be levied on Sale Price. FBR knows the fact and will not try to be unreasonable but if so it will be a matter of 15 minutes in high court to correct this. Rest assured there can be a theft but not robbery in the case of CGT implementation۔

User_6006® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 01:13 PM PST 

First tell me any single person in this fedral govt who paid tax , who earned halal , i will ask other to pay tax even that much if govt is not corrupt , is ishaq dar a stupid pig who think people are fool he admited money laundering how he can ask people to pay tax like this , day light robery because they are thieves can rob this is y these are not taxes but robbery

Salman.A® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 01:44 PM PST 

I understand what CGT is in its real terms i.e. difference between sale and purchase VALUE.

But for past few years we have been paying CGT at a fixed rate of DC value which is usually lower than the market rate. Please check your past transactions for CGT.

CGT all around the world and in our stock market is implemented on the gains but this was not the case on property transaction in Pakistan, It was fixed no matter you made a loss or profit.

In the stock market the government introduced CGT in step up manner. In case of property it was implemented 2 days before the year end.

We all will have to wait how this new CGT is implemented.

Umer135® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:01 PM PST 

If CGT is imposed on Profit Basis, I think our major concern would be resolved, otherwise transaction would be nose dived and provinces would be major loser along with DHA's and other societies.

10% CGT on Face value is quite ridiculous & unrealistic, FBR would eventually have to rationalize it.

Salman.A® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 02:11 PM PST 

CGT was collected at 10% for the difference or 2% of face value which ever is higher.

This is my understanding.

so even if you do not earn any profit when you sell within one month you still pay cgt at 2% DC value.

Ahmad786® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 05:06 PM PST 

I have also taken back my plot which i was about to sale.....
I thing government will see a sharp decline in even CVT and WHT on this CGT issue. Let them see the consequences
>
(74836)
Friday, July 1, 2016 09:02 AM PST 
Price Evaluation

Dear LRE Team,

Please evaluate the current market price of DHA Phase 9 (Prism) plot 257-Q. Thanks,

LRE® replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 08:01 PM PST 

Dear Sir,

Prism near Q 257 can be sold around 75 lacs



SALMAN MAQSOOD
+923224009967
LAHORE REAL ESTATE
EMAIL:INFO@LREPK.COM
>
(74835)
Friday, July 1, 2016 07:07 AM PST 
Ovcz Pakistani is Must To Be Tax Payer?

Dear Friends
I left Pakistan 10 yrs back. All my service in Pakistan I paid regular tax from my salary and I have NTN No also.
Now I am in UAE for 10 yrs and not filling my Tax return. Can anyone help me to udnerstand:

1- Is it must for me to be filer in Pakistan while I am earning in UAE?
2- If must, how to be filer?

3- Once filer, how to show Govt during plot purchase that I am filer and claim my benefits as filer?

Thank you all. I'm very upset coz dont know abt it.

Rgrds

Khalid Azad® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 08:32 AM PST 

Can As nation we also think about homeless population. The current hype a common man can't build their sweet home even 3 marla with his whole life saving. Investment should in industry and agricultural sector. So more jobs may create and as nation we may develop. say it's ok for a common person? No not at all

User_PK8438® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 08:36 AM PST 

Wow amazing to see the replays of mafia ppl!! making it a PTI/PMLN issue as usual to avoid taxes and keep making millions! best move by far by the government... it will actually help middle class and tax rich investors/mafias! property
prices expected to come down by 50-60% in area like DHA where black money has been parked for last 7-8 years.

User_PK9549® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 12:10 PM PST 

50-60% ? These
prices are nothing my dear. Property in Lahore are still very reasonable. People still buy expensive property in good locations. Good locations are not meant for us. Being a middle class, dream of having money. Not wishing that property comes down 50-60%.

Search Islamabad's property rates. You will get the idea how expensive people buy.

MS/ USA replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 02:44 AM PST 

User_PK8438®! I second you with all you said.
>
(74834)
Friday, July 1, 2016 06:48 AM PST 
DHA Lahore Phase 9 Prism Pre Tax Prices Update June 30th 2016

*Prism DHA Lahore Phase 9 Block Wise Most Latest Prices Update June 30th 2016*
(All prices are with 1 installment paid for civil development charges)

*A Block*
1 Kanal 95 to 140 Lacs

*B Block*
1 Kanal 82 to 120 Lacs

*C Block*
1 Kanal 75 to 140 Lacs
10 Marla 65 to 80 Lacs

*D Block*
1 Kanal 75 to 145 Lacs

*E Block*
1 Kanal 70 to 125 Lacs

*F Block*
1 Kanal 85 to 135 Lacs
10 Marla 65 to 80 Lacs

*G Block*
1 Kanal 85 to 125 Lacs

*H Block*
1 Kanal 75 to 120 Lacs

*J Block*
10 Marla 55 to 70 Lacs
5 Marla 32 to 45 Lacs

*K Block*
1 Kanal 75 to 110 Lacs
10 Marla 52 to 65 Lacs
5 Marla 32 to 45 Lacs

*L Block*
1 Kanal 75 to 120 Lacs
10 Marla 50 to 65 Lacs
5 Marla 30 to 35 Lacs

*M Block*
1 Kanal 80 to 115 Lacs

*N Block*
1 Kanal 65 to 120 Lacs

*P Block*
1 Kanal 75 to 145 Lacs

*Q Block*
1 Kanal 75 to 145 Lacs

*R Block*
1 Kanal 78 to 100 Lacs
10 Marla 52 to 75 Lacs
5 Marla 32 to 48 Lacs


DHA phase 9 Commercial Prices Update*

*Prism Civic Zone 1*
8 Marla : 700 to 900 Lacs
4 Marla : 375 to 450 Lacs

*Civic Zone 2*
8 Marla : 625-700 Lacs
4 Marla : 350-450 Lacs

*Civic Zone 3*
8 Marla : 550-675 Lacs
4 Marla : 250 to 350 Lacs


*Oval Complex*
Inner loop 4 Marla : Lacs
Outer loop 4 Marla : 375-425 Lacs


Choudry Mujahid Yasin (CMY)
Lahore Real Estate
+ WhatsApp preferred ( Available for you 18 hours a day on free services WhatsApp LINE SOMA in addition to SMS and call on regular cell service )

Hassan Raza replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 07:42 AM PST 

@ CMY. Thanks for the
update. Hope it includes all the development charges due and paid up till now.

MIT® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 07:43 AM PST 

test

Hassan Raza replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 07:47 AM PST 

Something not right here. Above reply-posting was initiated by me, and I did usd my +1...as usual but surprised to see showing "Hassan Raza's" name which is not correct. Please amend to read under my name. Thanks.

MIT® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 07:49 AM PST 

Same problem (above)posting again.....MIT

MIT® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 09:03 AM PST 

Fixed It. Please test
>
(74833)
Friday, July 1, 2016 06:34 AM PST 
Very interesting article Perils of easy money

Do yourselves a favor of reading this article it might help.


http://dailytimes.com.pk/opinion/20-Mar-16/perils-of-easy-money
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