Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(74892)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:53 PM PST 
Ref: Post 84181 - Transferring Money from Overseas

Dear Jameel Sb & others, very informative discussion is going on and thank you and others to explain this matter in detail.

I have a question, Lets suppose if someone have transferred 1 crore Rs to Pakistan in last 3-4 years and since then by doing buying selling activity and by earning profits all investments are doubled by now, How it will look in the eyes of FBR authorities as If he have only proof of remittances of 1 crore whereas now market value is doubled and there is another fact that many times we do not make the legal agreement of buying selling and just do the transfers and do the settlements by Pay order.

Moreover, just confirm if we can get all PRC certificates from Bank Branch itself or need to go to State Bank as I heard from someone that PRC should be applied in State Bank. Further, what if we used to transfer money to some bank account which is closed now.


Thank you in advance.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 01:10 AM PST 

It is very easy, you can prove that Plot # 1 was purchased with Foreign remittance, and Was Sold in This Much Money [You must have Copy of sale deed,also called full payment receipt on stamp paper. with Pay order Copy which you received from the buying party] and then you can tell my money has been growing Like this, If you did not keep any of these which is near impossible then you can be in trouble. Still You may get in touch with bank to track the pay order transaction.
In case you received major amount by cash then you will in trouble.

Coming to other question till date, FBR is picking random cases they send you a notice and you prove the source of Money, However if you want to be a Filer and declare all your assets then trouble will be solved for ever, Though you will have to
update the Filing every year.

The Whole concern at this point is that other than random pick up any new transaction in property will be automatically in the priority of FBI Probe, Both parties will be questioned to prove the source, this will decrease the number of transactions and slow down the business, people will not lose by paying few more lacs of fees but this issue will reverse the price growth. Seller may give only 5 lac Gain tax but get 20 Lac less value of Property though both patties have all white money

Try to understand last papgraph

Adeel Khan® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 02:42 AM PST 

Thank you very much for detailed reply. I got your hidden message which you conveyed by putting assumed figures and using the term of fees. That will be much practical and is possible with the mutual understanding of both parties which I believe no one will refuse.
Now lets see one scenario:
- Plot purchased 6 months ago with the price of 1 crore
- DC rate of plot as on is 3,500,000/-
- Market Value as on is 10,000,000/-
If FBR asks for the source there are 3 docs which can be presented
1- Sale Deed OR
2- Pay Order copy OR
3- Bank Statement of issuing the PO in case both above are not available

In above case is there any possibility that we can show less value of purchase price? Like Plot purchased at some price slightly higher than DC RATE? As currently standard practice is that seller is putting more value whereas buyer is putting less value in sale deed to avoid taxation. How it will be successful if one is Filer and other is Non filer. Can both escape tax?
I understand if both are filer then both can be in trouble if verified by FBR, Am I right?

Thanks

KS® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:12 AM PST 

@Jameel bai
What would you recommend to overseas should they start filing return??
Pros: Less WH Tax;documentation of earnings,wealth
Cons: Potential blackmailing from FBR

KS® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:28 AM PST 

@Jameel bai
For overseas pakistani what would you advice should they start filing nil return and become filer?

Asif replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:39 AM PST 

@Jameel Mughal sb,
Appreciate your contribution on this forum.
Referring to middle paragraph of your reply,, does it mean that no questions will be asked for source of income if one become filer today and declares all his assets.

Secondly if I was sending money to my friend's account and was paying by PO from that account to buy property on my name.. will it be considered white money?
Thanks

Asif replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:44 AM PST 

Correction:
Referring to middle paragraph of your reply,, does it mean that no questions will be asked for source of income(FOR PREVIOUSLY BOUGHT ASSETS) if one become filer today and declares all his assets.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 05:37 AM PST 

@ Ks I am seriously thinking of Filing Tax and declaring assets, The Only down side is wealth tax, which is not in practice in Pakistan, It is also not in practice in 70% of the western world usually it is 0.5 to 1 % of Total assets annually, It was in Practice in 90s. Staying in Pakistan it will be quite difficult for retired overseas person to give this Tax. For example net worth is 8 Cror, and 8 Lac Tax cant be paid easily unless you start selling property. However still is not there.
@ Asif If you attach supporting Documents scans there should be no issues but all sorts of Filing is reviewed and approved by FBR officers. It is better you consult some expert for that. There after next year there should no change as you will just updating your file.
If your friend paid pay orders on Your behalf then it is white and can be proved, However a bit of expertise is needed at time of filing.
Best Thing in My account overseas, my account in Pakistan and property in my name.
Adeel khan DC rates at 40 and Property Purchase shown at 60, in Filing is an issue but not "major issue" a different Dept can
contact you to pay remaining amount of CVT etc or Not at all if you reach someone in office.
Now onward if DC rate remains in practice I will advise the buyers to make 2 pay orders one exactly same as DC rate and other remaining amount, This will help to Make Documentation easier in Future and you have option to declare 40 lac [DC value]or 60 Lac whatever you like.
Properties pchased in Past FBR cant tell you that shown amont is les sthan Market rate but in future they can.

Adeel Khan® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:18 AM PST 

Jameel Sb many thanks for detailed explanation on all above.
As you have mentioned about wealth tax, if lets suppose out of 8 crore your house is worth 4 crore for your personal use and you are paying property tax and luxury tax also on that, is that also could possibly be subject to wealth tax alongwith balance part of wealth which is 4 crore.
I agree that this is major concern if such tax is proposed again in future which we never know.
Thanks.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 04:26 PM PST 

Your House, car or every thing is your assets, However it is possible that bracket start from 2 Cror, However it is Not in Practice in Pakistan so useless to discuss, In the Countries where it was Present, it resulted in Capital Flight having negative impact on economy hence even many western Countries abolished it.
Recently Switzerland reinstated it @ 1% rate after certain limit there is lot of criticism the main victims will be Swiss account holders .

Adeel Khan® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 06:23 PM PST 

Ok. Thanks
>
(74891)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:14 PM PST 
mindset

what is the confusion capital gain tax on revised dc rates will be implemented on each transaction less than five years old actually the mindset of our investors and people in pakistan is that they are not ready to pay any tax whatsoever and you can check the active tax payer list of fbr and you find very limited people who are filers rest majority of people commenting here are non filers and wants to remain non filers for ever how is this possible bhai you need to understand that each and every citizen 18 years old in canada and america are made to file their returns via internet there is absolute no hiding of income or profits or gain it is a serious crime there so my dear we should also bring everybody in tax net and start paying taxes all these countries are being run on taxes . people commenting here are all non tax payers and they abuse for one reason or another :pkf

User_9325® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:17 PM PST 

yu are in canada so thats busines as usual for you but we being in middle east are not used to this. I guess here mostly people living in gulf countries are protesting

truth replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:29 PM PST 

Nadeem confusion isnt revised DC rate but FBR and state bank officials evaluating your property every time you buy and sell and bullying you for money trail.
This sounds fair in a western system but hopefully when you have to deal with an FBR clerk or officer in Pak, you will know what i mean!
Taxes no problem but the harassment from the corrrupt officials is a nightmare of any honest pakistani....

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 09:12 PM PST 

TEST

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 09:18 PM PST 

Dear Nadeem Sb, Everybody wants to see his country growing, getting developed, getting his children high class education, best healthcare facilities for all the citizens, zero crime, security for its citizens best services in Govt Sector, and thats where all the money of tax payer goes. Unfortunately thats all not happening in our country whereas all is in practice in those countries u mentioned above. otherwise i believe no one would try escaping from paying due taxes if he gets in return all above against our paid tax.
Thats the point.

LOYAL PAKISTANI replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 02:39 AM PST 

We should realize now that govt is doing remarkable developments in every walk of life. That is why the property is increasing so rapidly but problem starts when we are not ready to pay a single penny from our profit.

Please be practically sincere with Pakistan. Our army is helping out our country so zarb e azb going on. Govt needs funds to meet its expenses.

We should not follow drama by opposition. This is the time to do support our army our govt to move our country ahead of crises once for all.

I'm looking bright future of Pakistan.

Ahmad786® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 06:51 AM PST 

People pay CVT and CGT even now so don't say people done give taxes. DC rate is a standard proving mechanism without much hassle.The government the self kept DC rate lower than market since it helps government when they buy plots. Even now they did not abolish DC rates. Can't you see that Government is dishonest here? People pay taxes even when they buy a needle. No country in whole world charge 17% sales tax but our government does. They deduct 25% from my salary straight away and they still keep on taxing me on my tax payey money. Do you think that makes sense?

Please try registering your nick just like we all did.

Ali.Bianco replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:16 AM PST 

I pay abt 30 millions in taxes each year and every year budget kills me more , they dnt treat tax payer a citizen rather consider him atm machine. Now fbr people also big problem sending notices on usess issues due to extra powers and you have to pay them under the table... Govt should make system simple and tax scales at realistic levels to get tax . Musharraf's time economy was much better due to relived taxes and good amount of business and stable exchange rates. This govt is just want thirs force to come in and kick them out so that they can become "siasi shaheed" because due to loans now it is not easy to govern country...

aamer replied on Tuesday, July 5, 2016 04:34 PM PST 

DEAR NADEEM 25

in Canada/America if people are paying taxes,,they are getting result of that,, what is in Pakistan ,,only corruption, all benefits are for politicians,, no infrastructure , no medical care, no justice for poor people,, every thing is for rich people,,and those rich people are not paying taxe ,,and getting all facilities,,

disappointed with all that sonerio ,, I am not against tax ,,I strongly recommend that we all should pay tax ,,but must be used honestly for welfare of Pakistan.

MIT® replied on Wednesday, July 6, 2016 06:38 AM PST 

@Ahmad786..Very correct and well said: People are paying layers of taxes now due to the corrupt 'rulers' (both past & current), and the one self declared more loyal Pakistani is misstating the facts, hiding behind a valid ID.

MIT® replied on Wednesday, July 6, 2016 06:41 AM PST 

...pl correct to read.."hiding behind invalid ID"(above).
>
(74890)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:45 PM PST 

Gents

Plz comment about future of J - Block (10 Marla) alongwith proposed Ring Road,

Regards

LRE® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:06 PM PST 

Dear Kashif Sb,

Kindly
contact Asim Irfan +923224003475.



LAHORE REAL ESTATE
EMAIL:INFO@LREPK.COM
>
(74889)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:29 PM PST 

DHA Lahore New DC Rates

Phase 5 Old 49 new 70
Phase 6 Old 49 New 62
Phase 7 Old 42 New 58
Phase 8 Old 33 New 46
Phase 9 Old 20 New 34

Usama Javed® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:34 PM PST 

if SBP will evaluate properties from 1st july then why Dc rates have been revised? please comment

M Zahid® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:46 PM PST 

Usama,
DC rates are revised every year or so. There is no surprise in that as you can see market price is about 3 to 4 times higher.

SBP evaluation would be fraught with anomalies. It will be hard for an organisation to survey every area of the country to give rates. That mean equivalent of Patwar organisation or may be bigger organisation than that. How will the fix higher price while there are plots next to graveyard, nallah facing commercial etc.
Other scenario is that govt asks buyer seller to declare market value and refer sample cases to SBP evaluation
team to verify the declared value. In case of under declaration penalties and fines etc.
Looks like more doors of corruption will open

MALIK® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:50 PM PST 

So many properties are bought and sold everyday how will they evaluate on a daily basis, it will be chaos , I think IMF should directly tell the people of Pakistan which rules to follow it will save alot of time.

User_3629® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:02 PM PST 

There will be no change in the methodology of collecting withholding advance taxes, stamp duty and CVT. All the above will be calculated on the basis of DC rates as being done currently.
The change has been brought in section 68 of income tax ordinance regarding Capital gains tax.
Therefore DC rates are required for calculation of advance income tax, stamp duty and CVT.
>
(74888)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:28 PM PST 

DHA Lahore New DC Rates

Phase 5 Old 49 new 70
Phase 6 Old 49 New 62
Phase 7 Old 42 New 58
Phase 8 Old 33 New 46
Phase 9 Old 20 New 34
>
(74887)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 05:33 PM PST 
Advices to buyers are sellers

Advices to buyers are sellers
It is human nature that we are inpatient, and that I can clearly see on this Forum, I am sure that buyers will rush to market after Eid to find properties at 2 years old rates and will thoroughly be disappointed that there will be no fall. And I am sure that sellers will remain in denial two there months when they will be convinced that 10 to 15% Gain is made had vaporized,
Nine out of ten people are convinced that there will be correction in market. That is alone enough to cause correction and new Tax need not to play any role. The whole debate is how much correction? how much stagnant period? and when recovery will start, historically all cycles in properties are long. If I am a seller and have inertia at this stage I will be loser. Just if buyer have inertia at time of flying market he have to pay price on each day delay.

In Current situation being both buyer and seller I will not take any decision at least one month. Earliest signs of market slowdown will be FALL IN OWNS AND FILE PRICES. You will never know a commercial in oval Complex has lost 2 Cror as demands will always be same as was in Golden period. If earliest signs of down fall comes then faster seller respond better is it. Suppose you are getting 100 lac for a property in August 16, which was 110 before then chances are it will go further down and for 100 lac price again you may have to wait 3 years. Any laziness will cause more loss. The properties like files commercial files and bigger plots will be losing more than possession plots. Bigger plots will lose more than smaller.

As buyer any delay you make better for you, there will be no panic selling [or only insider will know even if it is happening] and prices will settle down in months and up to a year. As a buyer also I will watch for early signs of slow down and if found I will wait more, The people who want to buy in one year period I will advise them to focus on ready properties. Ready properties always give you less gain in hype but they always lose less in Slump.

Long term holder and planners always enjoy all periods, in hypes they sell and in slumps they pick at right time.

Kureshi® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 05:59 PM PST 

I think at this point in time make no attempt to buy or sell. Wait for clarifications on the details and finalization of this ordinance and only then make statements of slump. I am not in state of denial but I have been talking to businessmen, investors and dealers and they all share the view that this law will not be implemented as it is as stakes are too high. DC rates will definitely increase and so will be CGT. It may or may not damage the market but eventually it is to the benefit of the buyer and seller.

Under current system , our white money was being turned to black money because if I buy a plot worth 10 M with my white money,i bhave to write DC value of 30 lac in FBR forms at the time of purchase and same goes in my income tax return. I had asked this question from a dozen dealers and no body was able to answer me and in fact made fun of me, calling me professor or a coward investor. I think when all this settles investment in property will become fairer. However govt must and hopefully will amicably take care of what has been happnonf in past 5 to 10 years and they were a part of this anamoly.

Let's hope for the best and hold your purchase and sale decisions for a while. Hopefully there will be no slump ; only slow down of own madness.

Ekrar® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:22 PM PST 

Dear Jameel sb, Appreciate your contributions/advices on the forum, especially in such a panic situation!

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:27 PM PST 

Dear Jameel, I agreed with you. But it will not be easy to decide for both buyers and sellers. Your continuous efforts are highly appreciated. If one is buyer, keep cash on hold and don't be panic.

User_9325® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:29 PM PST 

my question is what will the government gain by triggering a slump? slapping of these taxes means Dar and Co wants the market to cool. this will result in less transactions and ultimately less revenue generation for government inspite of higher taxes. Dar is experienced enough to know that the taxes wont increase the revenue. then what is the agenda of governement? why they want to lose billions they are making through Cvts, stamp duties, advance tax, WHT etc ? there must be a hidden agenda? may be now he wants to manipulate real estate market like he is famous for currency market manipulation?

M Zahid® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:35 PM PST 

Jameel,
Very good advice for both seller and buyer but have question. How can an overseas spot the difference in demand and deal price. This is inside game and only dealers can know what was asking price and on what deal is being lock. How can an observer spot this earlier even who is away from the market.

Khalid Azad® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:56 PM PST 

Dear Jameel Mughal.
I always appreciated your comments that is nearly true position. There is no business in world who gives only profit. There are always profit and loss if you do business.
If I say something some of our brother don't like. But current situation tell us a big lessons that is ahead.

Nadeem25® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:10 PM PST 

what is the confusion capital gain tax on revised dc rates will be implemented on each transaction less than five years old actually the mindset of our investors and people in pakistan is that they are not ready to pay any tax whatsoever and you can check the active tax payer list of fbr and you find very limited people who are filers rest majority of people commenting here are non filers and wants to remain non filers for ever how is this possible bhai you need to understand that each and every citizen 18 years old in canada and america are made to file their returns via internet there is absolute no hiding of income or profits or gain it is a serious crime there so my dear we should also bring everybody in tax net and start paying taxes all these countries are being run on taxes . people commenting here are all non tax payers and they abuse for one reason or another

Aldwin® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:20 PM PST 

@JameelMughal
Don't you think file business will become more preferred choice of business for investors as there is no tax involved. Hence,
files price can move upwards???, Regards

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 09:22 PM PST 

Dear Jameel Sb & others, refence to below post with regards to money transfer from overseas, Thanks for sharing such information in detail.

I have a question, Lets suppose I have transferred 1 crore Rs to Pakistan in last 3-4 years and since then by doing buying selling activity and by earning profits my investments are doubled, How it will look in the eyes of FBR authorities as I have only proof of remittances of 1 crore whereas now market value is doubled and there is another fact that many times we do not make the legal agreement of buying selling and just do the transfers and do the settlements by Pay order.

Moreover, just confirm if we can get all PRC certificates from Bank Branch itself or need to go to State Bank as I heard from someone that PRC should be applied in State Bank. Further, what if we used to transfer money to some bank account which is closed now.


Thank you in advance.

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 09:32 PM PST 

Best Advice. Thanks

Aldwin® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 10:18 PM PST 

File business might increase (price go up) since it doesn't involve transfer and taxes. Bahria Karachi isn't bothered by tax legislation and increasing. Its expected to shoot after eid.

Kureshi® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 12:56 AM PST 

I think at this point in time make no attempt to buy or sell. Wait for clarifications on the details and finalization of this ordinance and only then make statements of slump. I am not in state of denial but I have been talking to businessmen, investors and dealers and they all share the view that this law will not be implemented as it is as stakes are too high. DC rates will definitely increase and so will be CGT. It may or may not damage the market but eventually it is to the benefit of the buyer and seller.

Under current system , our white money was being turned to black money because if I buy a plot worth 10 M with my white money,i bhave to write DC value of 30 lac in FBR forms at the time of purchase and same goes in my income tax return. I had asked this question from a dozen dealers and no body was able to answer me and in fact made fun of me, calling me professor or a coward investor. I think when all this settles investment in property will become fairer. However govt must and hopefully will amicably take care of what has been happnonf in past 5 to 10 years and they were a part of this anamoly.

Let's hope for the best and hold your purchase and sale decisions for a while. Hopefully there will be no slump ; only slow down of own madness.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 05:59 AM PST 

Thanks for all the comments @ Kureshi I agree that if Law is revised or made easier then situation will change over night
User i don't Know what Govt is trying to create a slump but they want to get more Taxes and want to Influence DC rates. And also Gain Tax is being revised at the same time. So all will slow down Property. I dont think this is a Conspiracy, but was neither need of time. For a time being only revision of DC rates could had been enough. It is done every year and people were expecting after last year gains. If Govt find it difficult to deal with provinces regarding DC Rates they need to work on it.
@ Aldwin In previous posts I highlighted that Bahria Karachi consider themselves above the law none of these taxes are applicable to them they are Giving you a piece of paper and Paper goes from one hand to other without paying any stamp, CVT, Transfer fees etc I am not sure this open file is registered in Bahria Office but previously was not registered, Who have paper in hand is the owner of the Plot [Like in Movies], extremely risky work not permitted by law but hot favorite of gamblers. Now you can understand why Bahria Karachi is not affected but I know there is negative own on new bookings.
>
(74886)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 01:49 PM PST 

Dear experts!
What is meant by the mozas mentioned on commercial files? I mean I have phase 7 commercial file MOZA KARBATH. has this anything to do with future allocation of plot? like karbath falls in the area near Y block or at the time of balloting I will be alloted a plot randomly anywhere in phase 7 ?

Jameel Mughal® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 04:21 PM PST 

User, In Current environment it Looks irrelevant Question, But I explain you,
When Pockets are being cleared the File Contain the Mouza from where these are originated, But it has noting to do with your Plot
Location and after Ballot you may see it any where.
However there are few details involved,
1. Ist seeing on Mouza of New File we can understand that this Pocket is going to be removed or partially removed.
2. If Phase is already developed and almost no place left Like in Phase 7 then you are 50% sure that you will be located on same Land
3. If Most Phase is already developed and DHA is announcing mini Ballots at fast pace the it is even more sure that location will be same.
But No guarantee if 2,3 mini ballots are merged.

Arif M® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 12:23 AM PST 

I too had confusion regarding this. Thanks for sharing valuable info.
>
(74884)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 10:54 AM PST 

Dear Brothers,
I know people are upset & very rightly so actually if for a moment we leave aside the personal profit/loss & try to think on a bigger canvas what was happening or going to happen that would have benefited pakistan in general & property business in particular
1. The rumor is that may be people working in the Gulf/Middle East may not be able to transfer their entire salary.
2. People living in USA & Europe of pakistani origion were planing that they may own at least one plot/house in Pakistan
3.Reliance on paper money was slightly being considered risky
4. Buying of gold , of course is an an option But its storage is slightly risky

I guess these benefits we may now not be able to covert to our advantage.
A very well planned game.
Regards long live Pakistan

MIT® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 11:13 AM PST 

@Ahmed Khan: What is your point then, can you explain please?

Jameel Mughal® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 04:10 PM PST 

He actually mean world is going to economical unrest and final currency will be gold.I don't think any of these things is going to happen.

ShahzadQamar® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 04:21 PM PST 

Very scatterd view of Ahmed without any result. Gold is and will nevrr be a future. Its always just a safe heaven and that too for short periods or couple years. 1400+ is not a near term target for Gold perhaps

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 04:59 PM PST 

Very much clear point of Ahmed Khan that GOVT plan to rip off overseas Pakistanies. Since that money was earned abroad countries so ultimate destination of our saving is out of Pakistan. Either it will be pulled back through our rulers which is part of their job description or we ve to stop sending or move back our funds voluntarily. This is not justified that you earn outside and spend in Pakistan.

ahmed khan replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:32 PM PST 

Dear Hassan you are very close, just pray that the other hidden point does not see the light of the day (inshAllah) it will not otherwise ?
>
(74883)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:04 AM PST 

Dear LRE Team,

I have kept one 10-Marla File in DHA-Phase-7. Please suggest if there are chances of increase in price or I should go ahead with sale out?

Please also suggest if you have any news about its balloting ?

Thanks/Regards

Salman.A® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:56 AM PST 

@humaid

M.kashif ka chori ka plot hai ?

Moun kala karwanay say behtar hai k woh bechay hi na

humaid replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:02 AM PST 

@Salman.A

what happened bro?

one cent Millionaire replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:06 AM PST 

humaid jaisay logon ko kehtay hein "Oyee chaval insaan chavaalan na maar"

Farasat replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:44 PM PST 

Kashif bro, what ever is its
location, advisable is to hold it for sometime. Its worth would further increase. If you still want to sell, don't even think of selling below 70 which is minimum for a 10 marla in a developed phase like ph-7.

Farasat replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:50 PM PST 

Sorry, I thought it is a plot. For file, LRE staff can give you right direction.

LRE® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 02:51 PM PST 

Dear Kashif Sb,

Kindly
contact Hassan Raza +923028449766.He give better suggestion for you.



LAHORE REAL ESTATE
EMAIL:INFO@LREPK.COM
>
(74882)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 05:19 AM PST 

test
>
(74881)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 04:35 AM PST 

Test
>
(74879)
Saturday, July 2, 2016 10:42 PM PST 
Zakkat related Query

AOA, I have two plots one is for sale and other one is to build a house for personal use. My intention is to use the money, earned by selling first plot, for construction of a house. In this case, Zakkat is applied on the value of plot for sale?

Habib replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 11:31 PM PST 

It is your Nayyat, But if You have money today for making home still you will Pay Zakat?? If yes then other plot which you are thinking of selling you should pay Zakat
But all depends on Niyyat as it is Grey area or ssee some scholor

Arif M® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:12 AM PST 

Only a qualified mufti can give proper verdict but as per my research if your intention is purely to built house after selling this plot then zakat might not be applicable on it. But I ll still recommend you to get a fatwa from some credible qualified scholar or institute.

Salman.A® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 02:34 AM PST 

Zakat is applicable on the plot which you are holding to sell , even if it is for construction.

Zakat is not applicable on the plot where you want to build your home.

You should consult an AALIM

This is according to sunni school of thought. I don't know about fiq e jafria. Zakat rules are different.

Consult someone you trust and follow them.

Aldwin® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:06 PM PST 

As per Imam Malik zakat is paid once when you sell your investment property. As per 3 other schools of thought, zakat needs to be paid every year on property held as investment. regards,

Not registered yet replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:05 PM PST 

@Aldwin

As per Mr. Rizwan query you are v.right but i want to add if the property is for long term investment like Rizwan, he has to pay Zakat immediatly after selling for one year, but if some one is trading (selling/purchasing), in that case he has to pay Zakat every year on the date decided. this is what i understand, however it should be cross checked.

User_18647® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:06 PM PST 

@Aldwin

As per Mr. Rizwan query you are v.right but i want to add if the property is for long term investment like Rizwan, he has to pay Zakat immediatly after selling for one year, but if some one is trading (selling/purchasing), in that case he has to pay Zakat every year on the date decided. this is what i understand, however it should be cross checked.
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(74878)
Saturday, July 2, 2016 10:41 PM PST 
Zakkat related Query

AOA, I have two plots one is for sale and other one is to build a house for personal use. My intention is to use the money, earned by selling first plot, for construction of a house. In this case, Zakkat is applied on the value of plot for sale?
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(74877)
Saturday, July 2, 2016 09:43 PM PST 

Dear Jameel Bhai,
I have HSBC account in UAE and always withdrawn money from HSBC and sent to my ABL account in Pakistan through exchange companies for buying property. Could you please advise whether it will be considered as white or black. I have complete records of my salary slips in UAE, bank statements of HSBC UAE and ABL Pakistan.

Thanks in advance for your support,
Kind regards,

Habib replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:48 AM PST 

Dear User Bhai, It is purely white only Keep record of Transactions

User_18559® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:58 AM PST 

Thanks Habib Sb.

Salman.A® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 02:32 AM PST 

it is WHITE in layman terms.

But to declare it WHITE is whole another STORY.


You should have record of slips from the exchange company. On the slip yu will find the bank which transfered money to you account in pakistan.

You will have to write to the bank which trasnferred money in your account for PRC certificate.

This PRC certificate will be your proof of WHITE money. Other wise any bank statement is not valid for FBR. You moey will be considered black.

Then you or your lawyer declare this money in TAX EXEMPT income in yearly tax returns.

You will have to go through all this procedure to declare your money white and to become a filer.

User_18559® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 03:35 AM PST 

Thanks Salman Sb for this detailed guidance. During my next visit to Pakistan I will definitely do the necessary follow with the bank to get PRC certificate for all my remittances. I will also
contact a lawyer to start filing returns. I believe now all overseas Pakistanis must take care this process to avoid any complications with FBR.
Thanks a lot once again for your time and guidance. It will definitely help many overseas like me.

Overseas_Desi replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 03:37 AM PST 

Come on Salamn.A, don't scare the poor guy, he is working in UAE and have his salary slips, what other proof is required that his money is white.

When it comes to common man, all types of proofs are required, even when the money is earned overseas and transferred to Pakistan.
But when corrupt elite send millions of black money outside Pakistan, no proof is required. Hell with this type of system and lanat on those who support these type of corrupt rulers.

Salman.A® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 05:25 AM PST 

@overseas DESI

i just outlined the procedure.

SALARY SLIPS dont make your money white in PAKISTAN.

You have to proof you sent it through proper banking channel and show it in your return. JUST A LEGAL PROCEDURE and everyone has to follow it.

I have been telling this on this forum for quite some time. I have outlined the details in my previous POST # 83010

Oversees Investor VIRGINA replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:11 AM PST 

i always send my brother money from america for last 5 years thru my bank account to his Askari bank account n then thru money gram ..n my brother told me he got Certificates for every transaction thru his bank branch .They have to send all info to karachi it takes few weeks so if you have proof of moneygram western union transactions n bank wires slips .get ur money white .Let's do it proper way before these bleedy noon league corrupt loot us for our hard earned money

Salman.A® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:41 AM PST 

@overseas invester virginia

That money is white for your brother. You cannot claim that money to be white as yours.

User_20873® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 01:26 PM PST 

How we can send money in our own accounts for for installments or other payments. We have to send money to the person who manages it.

Ejaz_EJ® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 03:41 PM PST 

Dear All,
simplest way is to get the remittance card issued from Embassy of Pakistan in your respective country,

I got issued remittance card from Abu Dhabi and I am getting it from the last 2 years, according to the card category it is clear that you send specific amount of money to Pakistan through legal means.

SIM replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 04:05 PM PST 

In response to FBR notice after I purchased a plot, I submitted following documents which were accepted and notice was withdrawn.

1-Proof of non resident status.
2-Remittance certificate from the exchange company.
3-Salary certificate.
4-Remittance card.

Azee replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 05:54 PM PST 

I have question in fact related to this topic;
If one had purchased plot after transferring funds from abroad via bank transfer(s) BUT didn't obtain PRC at time
May request one's bank to provide now for the transfers made in past, let's say ten transactions during last two or three years?
Who (FBR/Income Tax Dept/Ishaq.dar/..) can help if bank refuse to do so.

I believe if it's possible many of our friends can fix part of problem if not all.

Waiting for reply.... Regards

Ammar® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:56 PM PST 

Dear Salman Sb,
Please needs one clarification.
I am currently working for a company that doesn't exist in Pakistan. I am looking after my company's customers in pakistan. But As I am working in pakistan but my salary is coming from outside Pak in USD in my SC usd account, what would be my tax status?
Is my monthly compensation is tax exampt as normally people say that all foreign remittance coming in Pak through proper bank channels is tax exampt?
Kindly do guide me,
Thanks

End_User replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:04 PM PST 

Dear Salman Sb,
I have one question regarding this topic.
I am working for a company who doesn't exist in Pak and my salary (USD) is coming from outside Pakistan directly into my SC dollar account through proper banking channels.
What will be my tax status?
I have asked few people and normally they say all foreign remittance coming through proper banking channels are tax exempt.
Could you pls advise me correct legal status of my tax?
thanks,
looking forward for your advise.

User_10773® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 01:52 AM PST 

Just keeping record of your transactions with yourself isn't going to be an acceptable case for tax authorities. The real thing that is required under the law is your declaration through filing of your yearly income tax return. It is important to be a National Tax Number holder and even more important is to be a filer. Once you declare all your Income/Expenditures you need not to worry

Salman.A® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 07:34 AM PST 

@ ammar

I am no TAX expert.

But what i understand from your question is that the company is not pakistan and sending money from overseas.

The money which is being sent to you is your salary which you will have to declare as your income and pay income tax on that amount.

Your money will be white.

If the company is sending USD from the business account then it will be considered your income. you cannot claim that money to be tax free.

If it is from individual then you can claim that money to be tax free remittances.

Better to consult a lawyer.

@ Azee

Yes you can get PRC for past 10 years or beyond. No problem at all.

NOTE: If overseas dont want to become filer then it is completely normal and natural. Just complete your homework and keep every document ready. If and ever you get a notice from FBR , reply to that notice with the help of lawyer by proving your money is white. If you dont get any notice then you are lucky.
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(74876)
Saturday, July 2, 2016 08:13 PM PST 
Mazrat ky sath

Zakat ka der tex ka der
Hum in say itn Derty kyon hain kya hum chahty hain hum 100% khod Hi bacha lain haqeeqat main zakat ap ky maal ko pak kerti hy or tex say hamara mulk (country) chalta hy. Kya hum sara passa apny sath lay Jain gy . Main bi Chota sa invester hon real estate ka mujy to koi der nahi Tex ka estate ka bi haq hy hamary profit main . Tex ky khof say hum apna bi or mulk ( country ) ka bi nuqsan karain gy . To plz himat rakain tex bi dain or bussniss bi karain . Shukria Allah hum sub per apni rahmat rakhy . Ameen

Mian® replied on Saturday, July 2, 2016 09:25 PM PST 

@ Sac First registered your self than give your suggesstion

Sharif replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 01:06 AM PST 

@Mian the Thekedar of rough registers
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(74875)
Saturday, July 2, 2016 08:10 PM PST 
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(74874)
Saturday, July 2, 2016 07:10 PM PST 

Aoa, I know my post will b deleted because I am not registered I am not a frequent writer on this blog but I do visit this site, I want to request CMY sahab, please tell ppl and clear misconception about the tax rumours in the market, ppl follow u and lessons ur video massages, it happens every year there is no big tax on property, they just want there hands on non tax payers out there, ppl like me ( mango ppl) will not b affected :-) please tell ppl not to panic everything will b cleared in a week or so after eid......happy holidays ppl and eid Mubarak

Habib replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:56 AM PST 

I understand you are holding for long time, In Long run there is no risk Fluctuations will continue, Volume of Trades is expected to remain low next 2 3 months , When normal operation starts then only market direction can be determined.

I am sure CMY must analyzing situation very carefully I am also waiting for his advice. But you can call him directly he will tell you exit strategy. I understand there are certain messages which can not be given publically on site where 50000 People visit in 24 Hours.

Nadeem25® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:08 PM PST 

what is the confusion capital gain tax on revised dc rates will be implemented on each transaction less than five years old actually the mindset of our investors and people in pakistan is that they are not ready to pay any tax whatsoever and you can check the active tax payer list of fbr and you find very limited people who are filers rest majority of people commenting here are non filers and wants to remain non filers for ever how is this possible bhai you need to understand that each and every citizen 18 years old in canada and america are made to file their returns via internet there is absolute no hiding of income or profits or gain it is a serious crime there so my dear we should also bring everybody in tax net and start paying taxes all these countries are being run on taxes . people commenting here are all non tax payers and they abuse for one reason or another
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(74873)
Saturday, July 2, 2016 06:29 PM PST 
Out look of market

I will request CMY to give us realistic Picture of Short term out look of Market in Coming 1,2 Years. So that potential sellers and buyers can deceive, I see Both panic and denial in forum members.
It is imperative to give both positive and negative out look picture.

Habib replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:09 AM PST 

CMY silence on this matter is quite meaningful

Arif M® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:14 AM PST 

CMY is also a human being but with more information perhaps. I expect him to address this topic in coming week once he has some solid information of these taxes.

SIM replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 12:47 AM PST 

We all know Ishaq Dar has killed the property business. Now CMY or no one else can help us out.

Usama Javed® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 01:08 AM PST 

See yesterday's Ishaq Dar interview to Tallat Hussain. Govt almost ready to settle this tax "Sayapa" with some bargain.Ishaq Dar cannot afford to detroy Real Estate industry at this critical time. I believe they will be some upward revision of dc rates. Their main focus area is Agri land where huge under valuation is being excersied. I have agri land as well so know registry/parwar khana culture. thousands of thousands people's bread butter is connected with real estate sector. itni bhi Andhar nai machi. i believe no need to panic. just relax

Arif M® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 01:21 AM PST 

Usama, We know track record of Ishaq dar. He is all sweet talks when in media. But what he has done with traders and banking transactions is in front of us. He is good at these games. I guess he knew the reaction and therefore he put in extra ordinary taxes for bargaining purpose. He ll keep testing market just like he is dealing with traders. Just to avoid immediate protests.

Usama Javed® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 01:28 AM PST 

well in that case we should mobilize all the stake holders after guaging the situation against this tax in coming days.we are ready to pay taxes not bhatta

Rashid replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 01:53 AM PST 

DHA Phase-7 is best for short and long term investment.
Economical ,just buy one at good
location having low price like Sector Z

CMY replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 01:09 AM PST 

Jameel bhai I am going to give a detailed opinion on this to due to last week of before Eid I am busy in family matters and spending little time with own kids visiting from universities.


Will be done soon insha Allah
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