Lahore Real Estate Forum

Tuesday, August 25, 2026 01:56 PM
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(74908)
Monday, July 4, 2016 06:44 PM PST 
Just a Thought

I was just thinking about the essence of CGT.

Govt shares 10% of profit, well, that 's ok.

BUT IF One sells a property on LOSS, will govt share 10% of loss as well?? ....lolz

humayun replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 07:25 PM PST 

Dar should answer this question. Genuine question

Aa replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:16 PM PST 

Actually in many tax systems one can carry forward what is known as a capital loss to future years and offset it against capital gains (and to some extent, ordinary income) for tax purposes. Which is kind of similar to what you are proposing. It may make sense for govt to introduce that here.

Ekrar® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:35 PM PST 

If I buy two properties X at 1 crore and Y at 1 crore.

Now in a year time, I sell X at 1.1 crore and Y at 0.9 crore, the net Capital gain for me is 0. So I should not be paying any tax in such a case...But here?

Anjum replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:41 PM PST 

U can adjust the loss in 5 years like stock

Password had spaces replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 09:52 PM PST 

Catagory A evaluatores list of SBP.
Annexure A (i)
Category A
S.No Valuer Name Limit per transaction (million)
1 K G Traders (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
2 Materials & Design Services (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
3 Harvester Services (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
4 National Project Managers (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
5 F K S Building Services Any Amount
6 Asif Associates (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
7 Arch-E'-Decon Any Amount
8 Yunus Mirza & Co. Any Amount
9 Oriental Engineering Services Any Amount
10 International Design Group Any Amount
11 Asrem (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
12 Star Tech Consultants Any Amount
13 Sipra & Company (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
14 Joseph Lobo (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
15 Indus Surveyors (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
16 Mughal Associates Any Amount
17 M Y K Associates (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount
18 Nayyar Hameed Associates Any Amount
19 Hamid Mukhtar & Co. (Pvt.) Ltd. Any Amount

Category B evaluators list
Annexure A (ii)
Category B
S.no Valuer Name Limit per transaction (million)
1 Iqbal A. Nanjee & Co. (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
2 Anjum Adil & Associates 1500
3 Oceanic Surveyors (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
4 Impulse (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
5 United Architects 1500
6 A S Consultants 1500
7 Industrial Consultants & Machinery Linkers 1500
8 Protectors 1500
9 Danish Enterprises & Construction 1500
10 Al-Noor Consultants & Evaluators 1500
11 B F A (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
12 Pee Dee & Associates 1500
13 Gandhara Consultants (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
14 Surval 1500
15 Amir Evaluators & Consultants 1500
16 R B S Associates (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
17 Design Crafts 1500
18 Unicorn International Surveyors 1500
19 Shami Associates and Builders Pvt. Ltd. 1500
20 Sardar Enterprises 1500
21 Excel Enterprise 1500
22 Engineering Pakistan International (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
23 Sadruddin Associates (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
24 A E Z Engineering Consultants 1500
25 Gulf Consultants 1500
26 Zafar Iqbal & Company 1500
27 Tracom (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
28 M J Surveyors (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
29 Arch Lattice 1500
30 Creative Consultants & Construction 1500
31 W W Engineering Services (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
32 Qadri Associates 1500
33 Osam Consultants Engineers 1500
34 Mujeeb-Ur-Rehman Associates 1500
35 Jasper & Jasper 1500
36 M Iqbal & Associates 1500
37 Muhammad Siddique Associates (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
38 Dimensions 1500
S.no Valuer Name Limit per transaction (million)
39 Sohail Associates 1500
40 Pakistan Inspection Company Pvt. Ltd. 1500
41 Mark Iv (Pvt.) Ltd 1500
42 Smasco 1500
43 Ali & Ali 1500
44 Tri Star International (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
45 Medallion Services (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
46 Imtech Pvt Ltd 1500
47 Empire Enterprises (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
48 Al-Wazzan Associates (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
49 Arif Evaluators 1500
50 S A Associates 1500
51 S A M A Engineers Associates 1500
52 Saleh Saleem & Associates 1500
53 I.C.E.M. Engineering Services 1500
54 H.N. Surveyors & Evaluators (Pvt) Ltd. 1500
55 Eastern Consultants (Pvt.) Ltd. 1500
56 A W & Company (Pvt) Ltd. 1500
57 Madadgar 1500
58 Credit & Commerce Consultants (Pvt.) Ltd 1500
59 A-1 Warda Engineering Services 1500

Category C evaluators list
Category C
S.no Valuer Name Limit per transaction (million)
1 Colliers International Pakistan (Pvt.) Ltd. 500
2 Professional Associates 500
3 Akbani & Javed Associates 500
4 Spectrum Services (Pvt.) Ltd. 500
5 S S D Associate 500
6 J & M Associates 500
7 Evaluation Focused Consulting 500
8 Construction Management Services 500
9 Axis Consultants (Smc-Pvt.) Ltd. 500
10 F A B Engineers 500
11 Tajik Builders 500
12 M I N A C O 500
13 Luckyhiya Associates (Pvt) Ltd. 500
14 Sakina Enterprises 500
15 Matco Consultants (Pvt) Ltd. 500
16 Rizvi Associates (Pvt.) Ltd. 500
17 Design Group 500
18 Progressive Architects & Engineers 500
19 Anderson Consulting (Pvt.) Ltd. 500
20 M A T C O V Engineering & Management (Pvt.) Ltd. 500
21 Uppal Associates 500
22 Tech Inn Consultants 500
23 J N K Enterprises (Pvt.) Ltd. 500
24 Ghaffar Associate Engineers 500
25 Khan Engineers & Evaluators 500
26 Perfect Consultants 500
27 Associated Engineering Group 500
28 Taamir Associates 500

Khawaja Qasim® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 11:09 PM PST 

@Ekrar, exactly the same question came to my mind :) the government should share loss too!
But I think Anjum has a point we can adjust this loss with other property with gains.
I think we should keep track of all withholding tax from now on means withholding tax paid on Cell phone bill (mobile companies if requested can give you the letter indicating how much withholding is deduced for a year), withholding deducted from bank transactions!
Most importantly the withholding deducted on property purchase that is a lot of money the same money can be used to adjust the CGT.
>
(74906)
Monday, July 4, 2016 06:07 PM PST 

Hi,
I have paid the following taxes when I bought the 1 Kanal plot in phase 7 last year.

CVT= 80000
Stamp Duty= 120000
Adv Tax= 80000

Could anyone explain how much taxes I need to pay if I buy the 1 kanal plot in phase 7 now as per the new Tax rates. I found myself on Active taxpayer list also.

Thanks

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:48 PM PST 

Total Tax will reach about 2+3+4=9% of new DC Rate or non Filers,add DHA Transfer, membership fees and Commission about 1.25 Lac More than previous
>
(74903)
Monday, July 4, 2016 04:03 PM PST 

Dear Experts
Would you pls tell me about Fazaia Gujranwala 5 Marla housing scheme on instalment. Total house cost is 3750000 .
Is it good investment or not?
Thanks

LRE® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:15 PM PST 

Dear Basit Sb,

We are not updated on Fazaia Gujranwala, Cant assist you.


Lahore Real Estate
Email:INFO@LREPK.COM
>
(74902)
Monday, July 4, 2016 03:34 PM PST 
FBR will take input from stakeholders for 2 weeks after eid

FBR will take input from stakeholders for 2 weeks after eid.

Apparently some one from overseas also contacted Jang to share his views.

Adrees® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 04:19 PM PST 

there is big news in dunya news newspaper ( page Karobar ki Dunya ) about unacceptable of property tax and call for protest by the the dealers and related parties
>
(74901)
Monday, July 4, 2016 02:54 PM PST 

Dear brother

profit or gain is 120-90 lac= 30 lac

10% of profit=3lac you have to pay while you file your tax return

Tahir Ch. replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:55 PM PST 

Sir g majority are non-filers so what formulla will be implemented on such cases.

ZM replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 04:23 PM PST 

Dear Tahir Ch,

The 10% tax applies to filers only. Non filers will pay more as compared to filers at the time of transfer. Moreover the CGT will depend on time the property was owned, there is no CGT for more then 5 years.

Thanks and kind regards

ZM replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 04:23 PM PST 

Dear Tahir Ch,

The 10% tax applies to filers only. Non filers will pay more as compared to filers at the time of transfer. Moreover the CGT will depend on time the property was owned, there is no CGT for more then 5 years.

Thanks and kind regards

Shah® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 05:10 PM PST 

brothers, you have an incorrect assumption on the magnitude of problem here.3 lac tax is not that big an issue on a gain of 30 lac.

the real problem is:
almost nobody declares the real value of plot at the time of buying but mention the DC value. So in above example, chances are that the owner never declared the actual price of plot (90 lac) at the time of buying but mentioned the DC rate (which was lets suppose 25 or 29 lac). So the gain FBR is going to calculate for you is not 120-90 = 30 lac

rather it will be
120-29 = 91 lac

on which 10% tax is 9 lac.

and that, dear brothers is the real problem :)

Arif M® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 05:33 PM PST 

Shah, I have also been thinking of this. How will determine purchase
prices of deals done in past. If they determine it by DC rate then there will be great difference. Which can translate into high amount of capital gain tax.

I wonder what will happen with buyer who has 10 million in hand which he get from sale of a plot. But that plot was sold on DC rate (say amount was 40 lac). So according to FBR only those 40 lac are white. Rest of 60 lac is black money. This is irritating situation. Govt should implement this policy for future. Not past. otherwise there will be too many issues for buyers and sellers.

humayun replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 07:19 PM PST 

So on purchase deed always write actual amount in which this plot was bought
>
(74900)
Monday, July 4, 2016 02:51 PM PST 

excellent analysis done by CMY on current issue of tax. worth listening.
>
(74897)
Monday, July 4, 2016 03:11 AM PST 
Market value assessment

Land assessment on market value I see only one beneficiary in whole this saga i.e hamza shahbaz it's time for him to sale land which he bought in last 3 years at market rate to Govt instead of DC rate

Kureshi® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 04:27 AM PST 

sounds like a conspiracy theory but very valid....
>
(74896)
Monday, July 4, 2016 02:12 AM PST 

regarding my expeirence of dealing in Bahria, I have seen that they collect taxes themselves. I never got an FBR reciept of taxes. I highly doubt that FBR has no idea whats going on in Bahria as they just get their share and keep quiet. in current situation Bahria can become safe heaven for black money as in DHA now FBR will get involved ?
>
(74893)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:58 PM PST 

dear jameel sb / other forum members
can u please guide how to become a filer,how to get NTN certificate to become new filer.
how much worth of assets should be declared while becoming a new filer( market value or dc value)?
can we get NTN number online or we will have to visit fbr office for the first time to get NTN number ?

what should one do to get NTN while living abroad?

User_9325® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 01:51 AM PST 

you seriously need a tax lawyer
>
(74892)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:53 PM PST 
Ref: Post 84181 - Transferring Money from Overseas

Dear Jameel Sb & others, very informative discussion is going on and thank you and others to explain this matter in detail.

I have a question, Lets suppose if someone have transferred 1 crore Rs to Pakistan in last 3-4 years and since then by doing buying selling activity and by earning profits all investments are doubled by now, How it will look in the eyes of FBR authorities as If he have only proof of remittances of 1 crore whereas now market value is doubled and there is another fact that many times we do not make the legal agreement of buying selling and just do the transfers and do the settlements by Pay order.

Moreover, just confirm if we can get all PRC certificates from Bank Branch itself or need to go to State Bank as I heard from someone that PRC should be applied in State Bank. Further, what if we used to transfer money to some bank account which is closed now.


Thank you in advance.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 01:10 AM PST 

It is very easy, you can prove that Plot # 1 was purchased with Foreign remittance, and Was Sold in This Much Money [You must have Copy of sale deed,also called full payment receipt on stamp paper. with Pay order Copy which you received from the buying party] and then you can tell my money has been growing Like this, If you did not keep any of these which is near impossible then you can be in trouble. Still You may get in touch with bank to track the pay order transaction.
In case you received major amount by cash then you will in trouble.

Coming to other question till date, FBR is picking random cases they send you a notice and you prove the source of Money, However if you want to be a Filer and declare all your assets then trouble will be solved for ever, Though you will have to
update the Filing every year.

The Whole concern at this point is that other than random pick up any new transaction in property will be automatically in the priority of FBI Probe, Both parties will be questioned to prove the source, this will decrease the number of transactions and slow down the business, people will not lose by paying few more lacs of fees but this issue will reverse the price growth. Seller may give only 5 lac Gain tax but get 20 Lac less value of Property though both patties have all white money

Try to understand last papgraph

Adeel Khan® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 02:42 AM PST 

Thank you very much for detailed reply. I got your hidden message which you conveyed by putting assumed figures and using the term of fees. That will be much practical and is possible with the mutual understanding of both parties which I believe no one will refuse.
Now lets see one scenario:
- Plot purchased 6 months ago with the price of 1 crore
- DC rate of plot as on is 3,500,000/-
- Market Value as on is 10,000,000/-
If FBR asks for the source there are 3 docs which can be presented
1- Sale Deed OR
2- Pay Order copy OR
3- Bank Statement of issuing the PO in case both above are not available

In above case is there any possibility that we can show less value of purchase price? Like Plot purchased at some price slightly higher than DC RATE? As currently standard practice is that seller is putting more value whereas buyer is putting less value in sale deed to avoid taxation. How it will be successful if one is Filer and other is Non filer. Can both escape tax?
I understand if both are filer then both can be in trouble if verified by FBR, Am I right?

Thanks

KS® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:12 AM PST 

@Jameel bai
What would you recommend to overseas should they start filing return??
Pros: Less WH Tax;documentation of earnings,wealth
Cons: Potential blackmailing from FBR

KS® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:28 AM PST 

@Jameel bai
For overseas pakistani what would you advice should they start filing nil return and become filer?

Asif replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:39 AM PST 

@Jameel Mughal sb,
Appreciate your contribution on this forum.
Referring to middle paragraph of your reply,, does it mean that no questions will be asked for source of income if one become filer today and declares all his assets.

Secondly if I was sending money to my friend's account and was paying by PO from that account to buy property on my name.. will it be considered white money?
Thanks

Asif replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:44 AM PST 

Correction:
Referring to middle paragraph of your reply,, does it mean that no questions will be asked for source of income(FOR PREVIOUSLY BOUGHT ASSETS) if one become filer today and declares all his assets.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 05:37 AM PST 

@ Ks I am seriously thinking of Filing Tax and declaring assets, The Only down side is wealth tax, which is not in practice in Pakistan, It is also not in practice in 70% of the western world usually it is 0.5 to 1 % of Total assets annually, It was in Practice in 90s. Staying in Pakistan it will be quite difficult for retired overseas person to give this Tax. For example net worth is 8 Cror, and 8 Lac Tax cant be paid easily unless you start selling property. However still is not there.
@ Asif If you attach supporting Documents scans there should be no issues but all sorts of Filing is reviewed and approved by FBR officers. It is better you consult some expert for that. There after next year there should no change as you will just updating your file.
If your friend paid pay orders on Your behalf then it is white and can be proved, However a bit of expertise is needed at time of filing.
Best Thing in My account overseas, my account in Pakistan and property in my name.
Adeel khan DC rates at 40 and Property Purchase shown at 60, in Filing is an issue but not "major issue" a different Dept can
contact you to pay remaining amount of CVT etc or Not at all if you reach someone in office.
Now onward if DC rate remains in practice I will advise the buyers to make 2 pay orders one exactly same as DC rate and other remaining amount, This will help to Make Documentation easier in Future and you have option to declare 40 lac [DC value]or 60 Lac whatever you like.
Properties pchased in Past FBR cant tell you that shown amont is les sthan Market rate but in future they can.

Adeel Khan® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:18 AM PST 

Jameel Sb many thanks for detailed explanation on all above.
As you have mentioned about wealth tax, if lets suppose out of 8 crore your house is worth 4 crore for your personal use and you are paying property tax and luxury tax also on that, is that also could possibly be subject to wealth tax alongwith balance part of wealth which is 4 crore.
I agree that this is major concern if such tax is proposed again in future which we never know.
Thanks.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 04:26 PM PST 

Your House, car or every thing is your assets, However it is possible that bracket start from 2 Cror, However it is Not in Practice in Pakistan so useless to discuss, In the Countries where it was Present, it resulted in Capital Flight having negative impact on economy hence even many western Countries abolished it.
Recently Switzerland reinstated it @ 1% rate after certain limit there is lot of criticism the main victims will be Swiss account holders .

Adeel Khan® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 06:23 PM PST 

Ok. Thanks
>
(74891)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:14 PM PST 
mindset

what is the confusion capital gain tax on revised dc rates will be implemented on each transaction less than five years old actually the mindset of our investors and people in pakistan is that they are not ready to pay any tax whatsoever and you can check the active tax payer list of fbr and you find very limited people who are filers rest majority of people commenting here are non filers and wants to remain non filers for ever how is this possible bhai you need to understand that each and every citizen 18 years old in canada and america are made to file their returns via internet there is absolute no hiding of income or profits or gain it is a serious crime there so my dear we should also bring everybody in tax net and start paying taxes all these countries are being run on taxes . people commenting here are all non tax payers and they abuse for one reason or another :pkf

User_9325® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 07:17 PM PST 

yu are in canada so thats busines as usual for you but we being in middle east are not used to this. I guess here mostly people living in gulf countries are protesting

truth replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:29 PM PST 

Nadeem confusion isnt revised DC rate but FBR and state bank officials evaluating your property every time you buy and sell and bullying you for money trail.
This sounds fair in a western system but hopefully when you have to deal with an FBR clerk or officer in Pak, you will know what i mean!
Taxes no problem but the harassment from the corrrupt officials is a nightmare of any honest pakistani....

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 09:12 PM PST 

TEST

Adeel Khan® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 09:18 PM PST 

Dear Nadeem Sb, Everybody wants to see his country growing, getting developed, getting his children high class education, best healthcare facilities for all the citizens, zero crime, security for its citizens best services in Govt Sector, and thats where all the money of tax payer goes. Unfortunately thats all not happening in our country whereas all is in practice in those countries u mentioned above. otherwise i believe no one would try escaping from paying due taxes if he gets in return all above against our paid tax.
Thats the point.

LOYAL PAKISTANI replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 02:39 AM PST 

We should realize now that govt is doing remarkable developments in every walk of life. That is why the property is increasing so rapidly but problem starts when we are not ready to pay a single penny from our profit.

Please be practically sincere with Pakistan. Our army is helping out our country so zarb e azb going on. Govt needs funds to meet its expenses.

We should not follow drama by opposition. This is the time to do support our army our govt to move our country ahead of crises once for all.

I'm looking bright future of Pakistan.

Ahmad786® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 06:51 AM PST 

People pay CVT and CGT even now so don't say people done give taxes. DC rate is a standard proving mechanism without much hassle.The government the self kept DC rate lower than market since it helps government when they buy plots. Even now they did not abolish DC rates. Can't you see that Government is dishonest here? People pay taxes even when they buy a needle. No country in whole world charge 17% sales tax but our government does. They deduct 25% from my salary straight away and they still keep on taxing me on my tax payey money. Do you think that makes sense?

Please try registering your nick just like we all did.

Ali.Bianco replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 08:16 AM PST 

I pay abt 30 millions in taxes each year and every year budget kills me more , they dnt treat tax payer a citizen rather consider him atm machine. Now fbr people also big problem sending notices on usess issues due to extra powers and you have to pay them under the table... Govt should make system simple and tax scales at realistic levels to get tax . Musharraf's time economy was much better due to relived taxes and good amount of business and stable exchange rates. This govt is just want thirs force to come in and kick them out so that they can become "siasi shaheed" because due to loans now it is not easy to govern country...

aamer replied on Tuesday, July 5, 2016 04:34 PM PST 

DEAR NADEEM 25

in Canada/America if people are paying taxes,,they are getting result of that,, what is in Pakistan ,,only corruption, all benefits are for politicians,, no infrastructure , no medical care, no justice for poor people,, every thing is for rich people,,and those rich people are not paying taxe ,,and getting all facilities,,

disappointed with all that sonerio ,, I am not against tax ,,I strongly recommend that we all should pay tax ,,but must be used honestly for welfare of Pakistan.

MIT® replied on Wednesday, July 6, 2016 06:38 AM PST 

@Ahmad786..Very correct and well said: People are paying layers of taxes now due to the corrupt 'rulers' (both past & current), and the one self declared more loyal Pakistani is misstating the facts, hiding behind a valid ID.

MIT® replied on Wednesday, July 6, 2016 06:41 AM PST 

...pl correct to read.."hiding behind invalid ID"(above).
>
(74890)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:45 PM PST 

Gents

Plz comment about future of J - Block (10 Marla) alongwith proposed Ring Road,

Regards

LRE® replied on Monday, July 4, 2016 03:06 PM PST 

Dear Kashif Sb,

Kindly
contact Asim Irfan +923224003475.



LAHORE REAL ESTATE
EMAIL:INFO@LREPK.COM
>
(74889)
Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:29 PM PST 

DHA Lahore New DC Rates

Phase 5 Old 49 new 70
Phase 6 Old 49 New 62
Phase 7 Old 42 New 58
Phase 8 Old 33 New 46
Phase 9 Old 20 New 34

Usama Javed® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:34 PM PST 

if SBP will evaluate properties from 1st july then why Dc rates have been revised? please comment

M Zahid® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:46 PM PST 

Usama,
DC rates are revised every year or so. There is no surprise in that as you can see market price is about 3 to 4 times higher.

SBP evaluation would be fraught with anomalies. It will be hard for an organisation to survey every area of the country to give rates. That mean equivalent of Patwar organisation or may be bigger organisation than that. How will the fix higher price while there are plots next to graveyard, nallah facing commercial etc.
Other scenario is that govt asks buyer seller to declare market value and refer sample cases to SBP evaluation
team to verify the declared value. In case of under declaration penalties and fines etc.
Looks like more doors of corruption will open

MALIK® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 06:50 PM PST 

So many properties are bought and sold everyday how will they evaluate on a daily basis, it will be chaos , I think IMF should directly tell the people of Pakistan which rules to follow it will save alot of time.

User_3629® replied on Sunday, July 3, 2016 08:02 PM PST 

There will be no change in the methodology of collecting withholding advance taxes, stamp duty and CVT. All the above will be calculated on the basis of DC rates as being done currently.
The change has been brought in section 68 of income tax ordinance regarding Capital gains tax.
Therefore DC rates are required for calculation of advance income tax, stamp duty and CVT.
>
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