Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(74816)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:27 PM PST 
CONFUSION ABOUT FEDERAL RATES

There are many questions connected to new Law and will be practical problems in if not addressed properly

These are many questions Connected to
1. DC Rate was By Govt of Punjab, People were not Fixing it will this abolish altogether why it cant be reformed

2. DC rate is is already about 60% of Market Value in stable areas only in areas with recent gains it is low and that is negligence of Govt not of people.

3. In Hyped Market or Slump period Market are too Dynamic, Moving in weeks Up and Down that is why previously margin was there in DC rate To accommodate bad location and areas just out of Boundary of societies how they can make this mechanism so dynamic,

4. When we Buy a property we make an estimate of buying price, then taxes etc which are Fixed at what stage valuation of property will be done by Tax authorities, Can seller get it fore hand and for How many days it will be valid?

5. Regarding source of white money when we have to prove it? Like I purchased a plot and went to USA how I know at what time FBR will come into action and will send me notice? and how can I present may case staying abroad? Corrupt officials will use this handicap for earning hefty bribe and overseas investment in real estate sector will be discouraged. Will the Govt make it possible to do all these formalities before Purchase.

Looks that people who are implementing this Law or commenting on it, either don't know the basics that these rates are fixed by Govt not people so there is No Provision of under reporting the sale purchase value.
May be it is war between Feral And Provincial Govts and Fedral Govt is Not happy about DC rates, I am not sure may be these rates are too low in other provinces that is why Fedral Govt want to come into action. May be fedral Govt want to hire third party to Fix values not as per DC rate but FEDERAL RATE, If that happen that almost nothing will change in Lahore at least where already DC rate is High. And next month We will be referring to FEDERAL RATE in place of DC rate

I myself believe and real estate agents know that 90% buyers are overseas and have white money. That Balck Mafia which public referring to is Just small fraction or biana Investors who pay 5 Lac on Kacha Biana paper to trade and get money out of deals, I have never seen Any Blackia transferred 100s of Plots in his name legally, Maximum they buy Affidavit file or gamble in Open file business or illegal societies. How they will Escape in this system
How this valuation will help to calculate gains when no documentation of sale deed is registered for Last many years and DC rate was Black bone of System.

Coming days will answer these questions.

S.Hameed® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:47 PM PST 

Jameel saheb,

This indeed is very depressing situation for overseas Pakistanis. A totally insane decision by the Govt. (where owls are the decision makers).

All this tax money will go to off shore accounts and high rise buildings in Dubai courtesy of Sharif and Ishaq Dar family!!

PML(N) Govt. has increased Pakistan's debt to such an extent that payback requires blood sucking of Pakistani nation. We are to blame ourselves for electing such thugs and looters as our rulers.

FBR is known to be one of the most corrupt institutions of Pakistan. I am sure they will crate a total mess of this situation and make the life of common Pakistani miserable.

M Zahid® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 05:29 PM PST 

Jameel bhai,

This is interesting to read.
http://www.brecorder.com/pages/article/1162459//tax-on-gain-on-immovable-property:-who-is-violating-the-constitution.html
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(74815)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:03 PM PST 

after this heavy taxation, this business is dead atleast for a while. the question is where would the money go instead? there are two types of investors
1. local investors who cannot do active business like setting up a shop or industry or farming etc bcoz of old age or no experience or difficulty of doing business in pakistan due to law and order/ corruption etc. they used to keep money in banks for profit which is already on historic low, so they started investing in properties which is also gone now. stock market is very tricky and not everybodys cup of tea as there is a wide belief that its a risky affair where yu can lose all yur savings overnight.
2. overseas pakistanis who only invested in properties as they cannot set up an active business owing to general dishonesty prevailing in our society. after years of being tricked and looted by BROTHER IN LAWS OR COUSINS overseeing their businessess, overseas ppl now only invest in properties and nowhere else.things are not good in Middle east due to oil crisis, Europe after Brexit and USA due to fear of Trump getting into power.
QUESTION IS WHERE WILL ALL THIS LIQUIDITY GO?

Ekrar® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:30 PM PST 

Gold will be a safe haven now... gold
prices are already going up with the recent developments on international arena i.e fear of staggering pounds due to Brexit and now "Scottish-Exit", calls for referendum in Neitherland to leave EU may dwindle Euro as well....Dollar is also insecure till next US Election.

The property prices may slightly correct and then there will be an epoch of STAGNANTION in property business....less buyers and even lesser sellers will be seen !

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 06:55 PM PST 

@ Ekrar, 100% correct
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(74814)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:39 PM PST 
Price Update

Where has gone the list of price update? What does it indicate? The matter is very serious and it is not about heavy taxation only; I think the buyer has to show that his money is white and he is tax payer/filer; from where would you get such buyers. And the seller has to show from where he had that property. If this is the case there is complete disaster and holders of property would be stuck but for how long? comments please.
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(74813)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 02:39 PM PST 
new amendment pos and cons

so practically DC rates were used to calculate taxes now valuer will evaluate according to market which means 5 times more taxes , on other hand people near govt projects whose land used to be grabbed and offered dc rate now wont suffer a lot ,
but how will valuer evaluate who will control market rate , will total mechanism going to change like in pak arab plot is 15 lac per marla while in wapda 10lac merla will SBP correct these things too ,and how they will see certain change in rate in current market , i think govt cant be that much intelligent they just put more taxes so everyone can pay weather its white money or black just by discarding dc rates . this is what it's all about ???
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(74812)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 02:17 PM PST 

After removal of DC rate, how government will do the buying for their development projects ? Will they pay market price? It can hit all development projects as the cost will increase many fold.
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(74810)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 01:12 PM PST 

Dear LRE-Brothers and other experts

How are you all?

Please evaluate near 8c/y/6.

This my fourth time to post this ad and no reply.

Advisor replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:06 PM PST 

Is this Phase 8, but which block C or Y.
No wonder, you have not received any reply yet.
Explain clearly where is the plot.
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(74809)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 01:06 PM PST 

For everyone to understand taxes can someone please roughly calculate the cost of selling 5 marla prism plot at around 35 lac with new government taxes.
Thanks in advance

Ahmad786® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 02:55 PM PST 

Roughly 12% will be paid by seller (4 lacks approx) and 6 percent by seller (2 lacks). In one transaction government wins 6 lacks out of 35 lacks...wow what a business !!!

Ahmad786® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 02:56 PM PST 

Sorry 6 percent by buyer. I typed wrongly

Arif M® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:24 PM PST 

That is almost 18 lac tax on deal of 1 crore. Ahmad have you included Banking transaction tax in this ? Not to forget taxed imposed by punjab Govt on empty plot holding.

MALIK® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:35 PM PST 

Does 6 lac include everything like stamp duty ,advance income tax ,cvt etc etc

Ahmad786® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:23 PM PST 

Wait for complete information in July. This is just an estimate based on current information and rumors. Ideally CGT is on profits only and not on actual price. I hope Government will implement CGT in its true sense and then it wont be that troubling.

Adnan_Ali® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 05:23 PM PST 

Malik, currently till 30th June all taxes CVT/StampDuty/Membership Fee were supposed to be paid by Buyer and Seller does not pay any thing except soceity old dues if any.

Now after this Capital Gain Tax 10% on net profit (if you bought the plot in 28 lakh and you can provide document bank statement/PO copy to SBP and make prove that you bought the plot in 28 lakhs, so your profit is 7 Lakhs (35 - 28), in this case you would be asked to pay 70,0000 PKR as Capital Gain Tax.

A lot of people are making confuse to others by saying that seller have to pay 10% of Actual value, they are wrong.

Of Course this CGT is in case of Profit, if you are selling in loss, no CGT applies. And in case of Selling after 5 years, no CGT will applies.

In my opinion, it discourages to local short term small investors/dealers who are running their kitchen with their savings and profits, Dealers will keep continuing Biana/Open File System but their commission based income will reduced a lot due to less number of transactions (If some dealer previously was doing 100 deals a week, now he will hardly get 10-20 deals a week).

Since Foreign Investors are mostly long term who mostly do keep shuffle their assets in Real Estate by taking in/out from some certain society/phases but do not take out money from this Real Estate market. now they will stick to their portfolio for some longer period.

Summary, its loss-loss scheme for all players (Govt will get less Tax amount in volume, less foreign remittances for Govt, dealers will get less deals/less commission, New Buyers will move to Gold (no tax , no documentation, no white money/black money issue) instead of RealEstate and Seller (if not needy) will sleep until those stupids who made this policy/law comes out of his sleep and undo this foolish step.

KS® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 07:06 PM PST 

Following are the rate changes in addition to valuation change

Changes in WH Tax and CGT
Buyer:
WH Tax
Filer old 1% New 2%
Non Filer old 2% New 4%
Seller:
WH Tax
Filer old 0.5% New 1%
Non Filer old 1% New 2%
CG Tax
old 10% sale within one year
old 2% sale witin 2 years
old 0% sale after 5 years

New 10% slae withiin 5 years

Ahmad786® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 08:08 PM PST 

KS you forgot to mention that earlier CGT was on DC value and now Actual price means 5 times CG

Asad-Ali replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:05 PM PST 

@Ahmed786 CGT is on Profit and WHT is on sale value (early it was DC Rate , but now actual value will be determind)

Example in some scheme where DC Rate was 40 Lakh per canal and actual worth of plot was 65 Lakhs per canal.

After this new rule, 2% WHT of 65 lakh for non-filer
10% of Profit (if seller boughts in 50 lakh and earned 15 lakh profit) so it will be 10% of 15 Lakh plus 2% of 65 Lakh which is equal to 1.5 + 1.3 = 2.8 lakhs according to current formula.

Idealy CGT should be on same ratio like mutual fund/stock exchange shares (2% on net profit if encashed before 2 years) and DC Rate formula is better , but DC Rate should be keep revised monthly basis (Average Plot price should be mentioned in DC Rate and 10% plus in case of best
location(facingpark/corner/boulevard) and 10% minus in case of bad location, Otherwise FBR/SBP officers will take bribe and will under evaluate the price like these were being done in rural areas till few years back.
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(74807)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:27 AM PST 
DHA Peshawar

Dear Friends Aoa ,
Its not that I am an agent of DHA Peshawar but I spoke to army friends and dealers there . The dealers are of the view that whatever taxes are imposed are to be borne by Purchaser and file price increases as per routine . They seemed less bothered by taxes .

Here in Lahore market is too much scared . Its not that simple FBR has no clear cut policy . Very soon there will be a writ in High Court and stay orders ..So no need to panic .AUR AGAR TAXES BHARTE HEIN TO LET THE WHOLE MARKET INCREASE ..I was in Norway some years ago and they have huge taxes still property market was booming . Chill

Arif M® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:34 PM PST 

walaikum salam, Peshawar may be good market but it does not have much appeal here as Transfers not possible in lahore. Security perception not good about peshawar so Punjab based people/dealers will not like to go peshawar peshawar for sale purchase.

Regarding tax, How do you think it is a good sign for property trading if buyer has to pay 18 lac taxes on purchase of 1 crore plot. Jis buyer ne investment ka soch k lena h us ne b expected returns calculate krnay hein. After these taxes returns will be greatly reduced and will be almost nil for 1-1.5 year investment. As a result, investment inflow will decrease which means less demand - while supply is same or increasing. What happens after is simple economics of demand n supply.

Ahmad786® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:27 PM PST 

Ideally CGT is implemented on gains only. This is implemented in stock market. If i earn 100,000 profit then i have to pay 12000 Rs as CGT. If government is serious than CGT should be implemented in it true sense. i.e on profit and no one will mind that. You cant take tax on actual amount and call it Capital Gain Tax. I hope things will get clear in a month
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(74806)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 06:21 AM PST 

Experts, please evaluate 512 Q, 1 kanal prism. Jameel Mughal shb, surfer, habib shb plz help me on this.
Thanks.

Hassan Niaz TeamLRE® replied on Friday, July 1, 2016 04:39 AM PST 

Dear Sir,
Your plot number Q 512 Prism is around 95 lacs
Hassan Niaz
Lahore Real Estate
+
Whatsapp, viber, imo
INFO@LREPK.COM
Team LRE representative may be approached anytime at the above mentioned number.If unable to attend your call at first instance due to some busy schedule or time difference in case of overseas clients kindly leave a message with your inquiries.Team LRE makes sure to respond to our valuable clients ASAP with the best possible solutions in real estate.
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(74805)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 05:31 AM PST 

Expert opinion needed from ch yaseen sb on the effect of tax on property,,, golden days of making money are gone ?????
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(74804)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:39 AM PST 

What is way ahead, dull market or prices increasing with same speed
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(74803)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:28 AM PST 

Jameel sb.,

Let's see price behaviour in next six months or so, what do you suggest sluggish market or price graph still moving up at 45 degrees !!!
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(74802)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:19 AM PST 

Jameel sb.,
By cyclical trend are you contemplating that prices in futuristic societies will recede after recent price surge during the last 6 months, or otherwise !!!
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(74801)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 02:55 AM PST 
+

Effects of heavy taxes due revised tax base prices:
1. Price increase will be checked immediately.
2. Expatriates returning to Pakistan on eid holidays will be tentative in investing money in property due to heavy tax structure and its detrimental effects
3. Prices will see downside in next 3 to 6 months, then after wards a decline of 10 to 20 % prices will consolidate at those levels
4. This event of increase in taxes will act as measure of price correction which will provide a launching pad for next price surge in medium term
5. In long term strong properties will gain as resilient fundamental based genuine investment will be attracted at anticipated discounted prices consequent to short term decrease
6. As a by-product this tax increase and declaration of white money based property transactions will expel black money out of reaL estate to a substantial extent hence eliminating the fear of any bubble creation and its subsequent explosion

Free advice replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:12 AM PST 

I think the
files will be effected most and there may have 10 lac subtraction from almost all famous files like phase 7, prisim, Multan, Gujranwala, BWP , rather etc etc

Free advice replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:14 AM PST 

Rehber

Jameel Mughal® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:14 AM PST 

Shabbar Sahib,
In Lahore properly Planned housing societies like Allam Iqbal Town and Faisal Town Johar Town rates have Gone Up to 15 Lac per Merla,
In denser parts of Lahore where streets are small the rates are 10 lac per Merla These gains are solid and will not revere neither reversed in past, so does not look likely that on ground Plots will have major correction. Six months back I was surprised that why people were not ready to buy at 5 lac Per Merla in DHA Phase 7 which is not the case now,
Only Futuristic properties where people cant make home may have some correction.
All experienced people know that property trends are always Cyclic for this or that reason.

Arif M® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 03:45 AM PST 

Agree with Jameel sb. There will be very little correction in properties with possession or near possession. While
files, or properties that are still far away from possession will be affected most.

These new policies (couple with punjab property taxes) basically encourage genuine buyers who intend to make houses and discourage the short term investors. So all those properties which fulfill criteria of being populated will not have any issues.

Salman Kasuri® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 04:50 AM PST 

i think speculation price by dealers will end, only true buyers will come in market. True buyer always there in 20 crore population country.

Shabbar_Hasan® replied on Thursday, June 30, 2016 06:38 AM PST 

Mehaz Dewanay Ka Khawaab
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(74799)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 02:08 AM PST 

Please suggest safe property investment avenues with budget of Rs. 4 million, specially after imposition of higher taxes w.e.f July 01, 2016.
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(74797)
Thursday, June 30, 2016 01:03 AM PST 
Sale of plot

Dear, I want to sell my plot# DHA Phase 5 Plot # 526 L. Kindly guide me about current market price. Thanks
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