Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(92)
Sunday, June 5, 2016 08:13 PM PST 

AOA

As CMY has already explained about CGT i will not be adding details to it.

But Please try to understand what exactly has changed, Many people here think that 10% CGT was not present before and it is whole new TAX.

It was there since 2014 and only thing changed is the holding period.

Please look at the attached picture which gives accurate information about new taxes, WHT and CGT are presented for current period and proposed under filer and non filer. Please take some time to understand and then post questions.

Salman.A® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 08:24 PM PST 

Sorry unable to upload the JPG image. I will type it here.

WHT ON SALE OF PROPERTY

FILER (current) 0.5% (proposed) 1%
NON FILER (current) 1% (proposed) 2%

WHT ON PURCHASE OF PROPERTY

FILER (current) 1% (proposed) 2%
NON FILER (current) 2% (proposed) 4%

NOTE: WHT is set to DOUBLE which can fully be adjusted in your income tax returns.



CGT ON SALE OF IMMOVABLE PROPERTY

CURRENTLY

10% if SOLD within the first year
5% if sold between 1-2 YEARS

PROPOSED

10% CGT FLAT RATE for up to 5 years

Note: people who have bought properties within this fiscal year and who are panicked to sell their holdings before 30th June will have to give 10% CGT as per old RULES, if they wait and let the market absorb the news of taxes they still will be paying 10% CGT. Basically nothing has changed for short term investor. only WHT will be doubled.

I dont see any major drawbacks in property with these taxes.

And please if your property rate has doubled in past 1 year it wont hurt paying few lacs to Government as Taxes. Besides taxes are on DC value not your actual tradable value.

I wish best of luck to the investors.

Adrees® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 08:34 PM PST 

Dear Salman A. please can you elaborate the how the Capital gain is calculated. is tax on gain or straight away on DC value of property at the time of transaction.
thanks

B A Rana® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 08:48 PM PST 

"Gain" means profit.
If no profit no CGT.

CGT = (DC rate on selling date - DC rate on buying date) X 0.1

Ali replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 09:21 PM PST 

@ Salman
Previously we have Stamp Duty, CVT, Advanced income tax and CG tax.
What is WHT ? Was it available previously?

Salman.A® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 10:33 PM PST 

Every Time we sell our property within first two years, we pay CGT. It is calculated at DC rate. Basic formula to calculate CGT is as follows.

10% of the capital gain or 2% of the recorded value at the time of sale, whichever is higher

Usually within 1 year DC values are not revised so we pay 2% of DC value as CGT and this is what most of us are paying even TODAY.

Mr B A Rana is not correct in his calculations. There will always be CGT. Government is smarter than us.

Abdal® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 11:19 PM PST 

@Salman. You have elaborately described the matter at hand. However, for further clarity will you be able to advise. 1) whether iCGT is a federal or provincial tax 2) will it be possible to quote the relevant legal provision wherein you are of the that CGT would be higher of 10% of gain or 2% of recorded sale value 3) recorded sale value is the value on ehich agreement is signed / market value on which transaction is done or value on which duties are paid ( normally DC rate), this refers to the case where there may be a difference between the two.

SIM replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 11:33 PM PST 

Thanks Mr Salman. You have been great help.

Maqsood replied on Monday, June 6, 2016 12:53 AM PST 

You said "10% of the capital gain or 2% of the recorded value at the time of sale, whichever is higher" But as per page 32 of official text of budget speech nothing regarding 2% is mentioned. http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/budget_speech_english_2016_17.pdf

NT replied on Monday, June 6, 2016 03:55 AM PST 

One can find further detail of Capital Gains on disposal of Immovable Property in following sections of IT Ordinance:

Definitions: SECTION 37

Rates: THE FIRST SCHEDULE - PART I - Division VIII

Jameel Mughal® replied on Monday, June 6, 2016 04:37 AM PST 

these are 2014 Rates, Actually due to under reporting of gain, Govt is implementing 10% on gain or ?? [ must be be 4 to 5%] of DC rate whatever is higher, More details are still to come

see the draft of 2014
Sr. No. Description Rate
1. Sale within one year of acquisition 5% of the capital gain or 2% of the recorded value at the time of sale, whichever is higher
2. Sale between more than one but within two years of acquisition 4% of capital gain
3. Sale between more than two but within three years of acquisition 3% of capital gain
4. Sale between more than three but within four years of acquisition 2% of capital gain
5. Sale between more than four but within five years of acquisition 1% of capital gain
6. Sale after five years of acquisition No tax.

NT replied on Monday, June 6, 2016 05:26 AM PST 

Capital Gains on disposal of Immovable Property is an overlapping subject between Federal & Provisional Govt.

As per Income Tax Ordinance Rate is 10% of Capital Gain(Sell within 1Year) & 5% of Capital Gain (Sell after one & before two years) & no tax if sell after two years.

However currently CGT is charged based on Punjab Finance Act that is 2% of DC rate (sell in one year) and 1% of DC rate (1-2 years) and zero after two years to "avoid the complications of accurate calculation of Capital Gain on Transactions".

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong.
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(91)
Sunday, June 5, 2016 01:59 PM PST 
New Taxes on Property

Dear CMY
Please educate us on the imposition of tax in the budget spec Capital Gain Tax (CGT) and its effects on seller as well as purchaser.
Best regards

Maqsood replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 02:25 PM PST 

I also want to learn about this although CMY sb has already explained this.
Let me give an example and please correct me if I am wrong.
Today I bought a 1 kanal plot in DHA Lahore worth 10 million rupees. However DC rate for that plot in today's date is 4 million rupees. If I'll sell this plot after 5 June 2021, there will no CGT. However if I'll sell this plot on 5 June 2020, say real plot price is 20 million rupees. I have to check for DC rate for that date. Say its 4.6 million rupees. I'll pay 10 percent of 0.6 million (4.6 mil -4.0 mil) which is 60,000 rupees.
If its true, then keeping in view that DC rates are normally much lower than actual market price, one wont pay very high CGT.

Salman replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 02:31 PM PST 

What is the current Capital Gains tax rate?

Is it not already 10%?

Sachaadmi replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 02:37 PM PST 

Logic of CGT is very simple , don't sell PLOT before 5 years if so then pay 10% of DC value.
For example: 1 kanal PLOT in Phase 8, DC rate is 33 lacs so we have to pay CGT = 3 lacs and 30 thousand if u wanna sale PLOT before 5 years.

Maqsood replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 02:41 PM PST 

@Sachaadmi...I dont think this tax is on absolute price but on the difference aka "Capital Gain".
CGT formula is (Selling DC rate - Buying DC rate)*0.1

Boy® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 02:54 PM PST 

Maqsood you explained it totally right !

MNQ replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 03:47 PM PST 

what about the file and non filer tax percentage that has been doubled

SIM replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 03:54 PM PST 

How can overseas Pakistanis avoid this non filer tax? Has there been a withholding tax on property and rentals also?

tahir replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 04:02 PM PST 

I think DC rates are value of property announced by Govt. So there is no selling and buying DC rates

So 10 % flat tax on DC rates will be deducted

I think after 30 June this should be 4 lac flat on selling of one kanal prism plot

Irfan UAE® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 04:15 PM PST 

What is this DC rate, please some one can explain?

Maqsood replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 04:55 PM PST 

@tahir Let me make this easier for you.
"Gain" means profit. It means no profit no tax. It is a tax on profit only. Simple!
CGT = (DC rate on selling date - DC rate on buying date)*0.1
Can't make it easier than this.

User_P1876® replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 05:17 PM PST 

Maqsood is absolutely correct.

Other ones Guys , please do not confuse a very simple thing - which is capital gain Tax , its only on Gain/Profit , not on actual value

kashif replied on Sunday, June 5, 2016 06:52 PM PST 

The problem is if you are selling at DC value then you will not be able to justify the actual selling price and DC value difference.

Your plot selling DC Value:40
Actual selling price: 100

How you will justify the remaining 60? Now FBR has started tracking thru bank channels. Will you take the risk of cash???

IM786® replied on Monday, June 6, 2016 01:04 AM PST 

Yes Kashif sb. This is the big problem. In that case 60 lac will be black money. Also buyer and seller both have to agree to show less value. Also Maqsood sb you said nothing is changed. Dear taxes has been doibled as mentioned by you.
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(89)
Thursday, May 26, 2016 06:16 PM PST 

CMY
I totally agree with CMY..this bubble is about to burst now...Ph 9 is a bubble,,DHA multan is a bubble at 40 Plus...DHA Kci bubble is already bursted.Old ppl like me recall 2004 -5...DHA prism file was at 45,,,came back to 13....rest every body make ur own decisions.

FRIEND replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 06:25 PM PST 

SAIM, YOU TAKING HISTORY. AT PRESENT NO BUBBLE? YOU MIS THE TRAIN????

Khalid Azad replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 06:30 PM PST 

History repeat.
I totally agree it's same situation as 2005,underdeveloped area always most effective. Beware

Farooq Pathan replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 06:36 PM PST 

Few days ago he was saying that if you wont listen to me, you would miss the train.

Today, CMY is saying that you would be responsible for your own self.

CMY would keep on giving tips and if someday market would crash, he would refer to his today's post and would act like a Messiah again :)

Salman replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 06:38 PM PST 

Dha Multan chal perra to sab non holders ke jaan nikal rahe hai.

Just because you have missed the train, don't take out your frustration by misguiding people who have invested sensibly.

DHA Multan ke train chal peri hai aur 50 next stop hai. Good luck to all holders!

Salman replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 06:41 PM PST 

Saim sab, you could have replied to CMY in his earlier post.

Why did you need to start another fresh discussion? Proves my point lol

Laiq Ur Rehman® replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 06:50 PM PST 

The world is full of trolls and so is this website.

I totally agree with Salman that the people who missed the train at trolling now and crying and going for the correction. Eid is coming and so are people and everyone knows that the prices for up during this period.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 07:01 PM PST 

Market correction is obvious. Few days back I wrote that recession is knocking on doors now it has reached badly. Figure is very high those lost jobs. Down sizing is going on which effecting a large no of overseas Pakistanies also. From next moth many countries (don't want to mention name) going to put limits on remittance and tax on value. But DHA Multan will go up smoothly and it will stop at 50 because of balloting, excellent location. After ballot it will be high from 50 to 100 %. Depends location of plot.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 07:47 PM PST 

What I learned so far that when market say sell, don't sell and when market says buy, don't buy.

Ali replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 07:54 PM PST 

the point is that DHA reaches to it starting point so genuinely there is no increase. Actually it was undervalue and now it has been corrected amd the people who took that are rewwarded. So Still alot to come and catch the train as Ahmed said
after ballot 50 to 100 so ABHI TO PARTY SHURU HUI HAI !

Maqsood replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 07:54 PM PST 

Ahmad Hassan....very well said

Basit Farooq replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 08:49 PM PST 

DHA phase 7 is on ground existing reality (it was balloted in 2006 and possession given in the recent past)

Phase 8 wil be on ground after a few years (balloted in 2010, so possession shlud be in 2020)

Phase 9 will be an on ground reality after 10 years (Balloted in 2015, possession no less than 2025)

Why making investments, why do not people realize above mentioned groud realities ?

XYZ replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 09:08 PM PST 

Ab kia ho, jab chiriyaan chug gain khait. Clever people already made millions out of phase 9 and are flying away. People have to decide themselves before making investments, I mean, do not rely on dealers. Phase 9 was not, by any means, a short term investment. Only the big fish made the money, now medium and small investors either have to bear loss or wait for 10-12 years.

KB20 replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 09:35 PM PST 

Salam to everyone. Multan DHA is not bubble the way I take it let it discuss with my brothers. It's not bubble because , bubble is not because Multan is not just launched in last week. Multan in ground launched happened in 1 and half year ago. It has already seen its bad patch in reality it's still been 200% cheaper then normal farigh towns. In those crap towns are selling land for minimum 4 lakhs per marla if you multiply these marla into 20 marla a it becomes 80 lakh each kanal. So if we minus our development charges means 80 lakh minus 17 lakh = 63 lakhs so realistic plots will start from minimum 65 lakhs it's not bubble because it's going towards its maturity and it's still very cheap. People challenged on same forum I had critics aswell but I said 4-5 lakhs immediate increase can some expect soon and probably in the night but every body on this forum said no. I am in property business aswell in international market in uk. So with my experience trust this investment and still buy it it's good deal trust me. In prism you need to spend 1 crore to get 20-40 lakhs profit with this one Multan Dha you will make good on pounds. I am not taking this as Pakistan investment I am taking it as international Salam to everyone. Multan DHA is not bubble the way I take it let it discuss with my brothers. It's not bubble because , bubble is not because Multan is not just launched in last week. Multan in ground launched happened in 1 and half year ago. It has already seen its bad patch in reality it's still been 200% cheaper then normal farigh towns. In those crap towns are selling land for minimum 4 lakhs per marla if you multiply these marla into 20 marla a it becomes 80 lakh each kanal. So if we minus our development charges means 80 lakh minus 17 lakh = 63 lakhs so realistic plots will start from minimum 65 lakhs it's not bubble because it's going towards its maturity and it's still very cheap. People challenged on same forum I had critics aswell but I said 4-5 lakhs immediate increase can some expect soon and probably in the night but every body on this forum said no. I am in property business aswell in international market in uk. So with my experience trust this investment and still buy it it's good deal trust me. In prism you need to spend 1 crore to get 20-40 lakhs profit with this one Multan Dha you will make good on pounds. I am not taking this as Pakistan investment I am taking it as international investment take benefit of it. Let me make you clear I am not making money from selling you the land I have no interest what so ever . But I am trying to share my views with you guys. As I get lot of knowledge from you guys all seems to be perfect in their own expertise. Forget about my errors or mistakes but try to get my point.Rest Allah knows the best take benefit of it. Let me make you clear I am not making money from selling you the land I have no interest what so ever . But I am trying to share my views with you guys. As I get lot of knowledge from you guys all seems to be perfect in their own expertise. Forget about my errors or mistakes but try to get my point.Rest Allah knows the best

Kriz® replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 10:05 PM PST 

New Proposed Taxes

http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20160526

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Thursday, May 26, 2016 10:24 PM PST 

Despite all this, Multan file closed at 41. Demand and supply phenomena always exists. Affidavit files sold and balloting is due now

Ashfaq® replied on Friday, May 27, 2016 12:25 AM PST 

By the grace of Allaah the Almighty, I am long term investor and I have no concern with short term surprises, market correction or bubble burst. I think this must be the target of all long term investors. Allaah the Almighty knows best.

Ekrar® replied on Saturday, May 28, 2016 01:28 AM PST 

KB20, time to sell ur DHA Multan files NOW ...get the tickets back to pak!

KB20 replied on Saturday, May 28, 2016 03:50 AM PST 

Ekraar not yet Smile and wave bro not now would be too early to sell. See where it will end.
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