Lahore Real Estate Forum

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(76073)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 06:11 PM PST 
Price evaluation

Dear LRE team,
Can you please evaluate the following plots:

DHA phase 9, Block R 1376, Corner, 60ft road.

DHA phase 9, Block R 1053, more than 5 Marla

DHA phase 9 Town, Block D, 731/87, 5 Marla Corner

Kind regards,

ALi

Lahore Real Estate replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 06:42 PM PST 

Dear Mr Ali,

Prism market price near R 1376 is around 34 lacs ( 3 paid ).

Plot near R 1053 is around 34 lacs ( 3 paid ).


Asim Irfan
923224003475
Lahore Real Estate
Email:INFO@LREPK.COM

Lahore Real Estate replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 06:47 PM PST 

Dear Sir,

DHA 9 Town near D 731/87 is valued around 54 lacs.


Hassan Mehmood
+
Lahore Real Estate
Email:INFO@LREPK.COM
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(76072)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 05:17 PM PST 
Why 2005-6 Crash happened

CMY was very active in the market and was dealer at that Time I will Like if request him to declassify inf and share with us why 2005 and 2006 Blood shed Happened, At that Time Govt was strong there no economic instability, There were no Tax of FBR issue, I understand that prices Tripled in 2000 to 2004 But that also happened in past Though Not that acute.
Today we see the Holders even investors are holding. But why in 2006 People sold their investments at less than 1/2 price.
The Only thing which comes to my mind is that there were big investors or political corruption which led to crash, which hopefully should not happen now.

M Arshad Ali® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 09:49 PM PST 

Dear Brother, property crashed badly in December 2007, on the death of BeNazir Bhutto, before that property was stable and I was holding 3 plots.BeNazir Bhutto assassination led the blood shed as well as fall in property

CMY replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 01:36 AM PST 

Habib bhai due to health issues dont have time for long discussions so leaving a short note.

Our website was online from 2004 but we were not dealers in 2005 till end of 2005.
Lahore Real Estate opened doors in Dec 2005 in very weak property market.

Main reason of rise was very low interest rates. People were not putting money in banks and industrialists were taking huge loans on factories at very low rates to buy 30 50 or 100 plots at time.

Every one including rahri ban was buying property without looking at past record of developers. Paper projects were gaining 1 lac each day. 100s of fake projects were booked in days in Gwadar not one plot delivered .



On paper every one was making big money eacg day. Hands kept changing. Only Lahrerealestate.com and couple sites were available. We tried our best to calm or stop people but when some one was gaining one lac on file each day there was no stopping. We were considered idiots for stopping people from making money just like today :)


When reverse gear started in May 2005 no buyers were available because properties that were gaining one lac eac day started to lose


Peak of market was April 2005. Massive rise in days time and equally massive steep fall in days time too. By time Lahore Real Estate opened doors market had very big correction.

Sorry I will have to go for an appointment so will continue post after I am back.

Salman.A® replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 04:20 AM PST 

CMY sb.

We all would love to hear your story of 2005 CRASH. Why? When?How?

This will help us evaluate the current situation.

Hopefully you will compare 2005 with 2016 and show us a clear picture of what is happening in Pakistan Real Estate Market.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 05:03 AM PST 

Crash Means significant discount on peak level
In
Prices Crashed near 1999 when Musharraf started recovering of money form Corrupt Politicians, At that time prices fell to almost 50% of peak level, at the same time Pak Rupee was lowest 17/Dhs NSS rates were highest and soon Musharraf realized that Money cant be recovered and will create more panic than help to economy then onwards things stabilized. Rupee also remained stable 15 to 16/Dhs for next 9 years.

2005 to 2007 Crash was Multifactorial, The most important factors were Previous Hype, and "with in DHA Factors" I will not go in details, But influential people got Plots just on development charges rates. High levels were involved. When these Grabbers Thought that Govt is falling and accountability could be done they offloaded at throw away prices, which drowned all the market to almost 40% of Peak level in some inflated sectors. Then DHA Silently did Clean up and top Notch was Changed.

2016 we may see only 15 to 20% Correction and few years Stagnation, situation like 2005 to 7 is not expected

Onlooker replied on Friday, September 2, 2016 11:02 AM PST 

Thanks for starting a good discussion.
There are many differences between Lahore Property Market of 2006 and that of today. At that time the market was way over-heated than today, all assets types (Stocks, property) globally were in bull run and reckless bank financing was available to fund speculation. The 2016 is very different. Bull run is on perhaps only in Pakistan and with a good reason - a better government in place after relatively poor governance - so investment catching up perhaps. The run seen in past one year or so perhaps got triggered after Pak China Corridor was seen taking shape. The current situation may just be a temporary breather or a correction.
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(76070)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 05:00 PM PST 
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(76068)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 03:16 PM PST 
Myths regarding Pakistan

There were some posts regarding surge in foreign investments by Pakistanis, decrease in foreign remittance etc. Some believe Pakistan has weak economics. Others argue, Pakistanis do not pay taxes. The following two analysis by my colleague is worth reading. Will help us all understand Pakistan economies, taxes and benefits of investing in Pakistan market!

Myth - Pakistan is a poor country
Reality – Is opposite!

GDP is defined as "Good and services produced by a person multiplied by the total population". GDP is used to define how big the economy of a country is. Pakistan official GDP is 225 Billion dollars, which makes it the 44th largest economy of the world out of 196 total countries. Since purchasing power of 1 US$ varies from country to country, and in order to get a more realistic picture, sometimes GDP in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP) is used to see how much goods and services people can afford after adjusting for their cost. So in terms of PPP, Pakistan GDP comes to US$500 billion (according to UN) and makes it the 26th largest economy of the world.
However this GDP calculation is based on official figures i.e goods and services produced by individuals documented by the state bank and FBR. In reality, most services and goods being produced are not documented or understated to cheat on taxes. For e.g a retail store owner never reveals correctly his profit at the end of the year to FBR. As a matter of fact it is under reported by almost a factor of 10. Similarly no body is accounting for the services produced by overly busy tailors, plumbers, AC mechanics, car mechanics, cooks, maids, Khokha owners and hundreds of other people. Almost all the rural economy is undocumented specially where small farmers and cattle raisers are concerned.
If we make a very conservative estimate that the actual economy is twice as large as the documented economy, in terms of GDP based on Purchasing power parity, our GDP goes up to 1000 billion dollars. This makes Pakistan real economy the 17 largest in the world, just behind Turkey 1100 billion dollars. Interestingly enough this makes Pakistan economy larger than that of Australia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, Austria, Switzerland, UAE, Denmark, Finland, Malaysia and a host of other "large" and successful economies.
I have to make it clear that I am not talking about per capita income, which is GNP divided by population, but the total size of the economy. When a new business is to be set up, size does matter, as it gives an idea of how much revenue and profit can be generated. So despite all the hype of Pakistan economy being in dire straits, it still is one of the biggest in the world and the most resilient. That also explains that despite complaints of inflation and "Mehngai", the restaurants serving Rs 1000 per head food are full, so are show rooms selling Rs 2-5 million cars, weddings where 500 guests are invited, Boutiques selling Rs 10,000 per dress good for only one season, and women complaining that they cant find a good tailor or a cook or a maid.
Pakistan is the only country where despite global economic crises no bank got bankrupted, where the government has never defaulted on a single domestic or foreign loan, where National savings is as safe as U.S treasury bonds and where no telecom operator has ever suffered a loss or gone under. It is the only country where Toyota can put 20 year old engines in its latest cars and still there is a delivery waiting period and where Suzuki can sell 30 year old Mehrans and still be the number one automaker of the country. It is the only country where commercial flights are always full, where all universities generate profits, where property dealers become millionairs. It is also a country where a house in Islamabad costs more than a house in California. Yet we think we live in a poor country!!!!

Myth – Pakistanis don not pay taxes
Reality – Pakistan is one of the most heavily tax countries

This years budget estimates revenues of 3000 billion from direct and mostly indirect taxes. If we divide 3000 billion by 9 crore adult Pakistanis, then each Pakistani will pay Rs 35,000 tax (mostly indirect) this year. Now average income of a Pakistani is Rs 7000 per month according to Government figures. That means that each Pakistani making Rs 7000 per month has to pay Rs 3000 in tax each month. This is almost 50% tax. This also makes Pakistan the most heavily taxed country in the world, and the sad part is that burden is mostly on poor and middle class Pakistanis. This year tax has been increased on Ghee, cooking oil, chicken, milk, butter, yogurt and pulses. A person making Rs 1 Lak per month and spending his salary in that month pays Rs 40,000 in indirect taxes and Rs 14000 in direct taxes. That makes it Rs 54,000 in taxes each month...

Arif M® replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 01:06 AM PST 

This is just numbers game showing half truth (selected one). Both these points are irrelevant without complete picture.

Yes taxes are paid. But are they paid fairly by rich? And are they used fairly by Govts?

GDP, and such other statistics show only partial pictures. To see real picture we really don't need to look into these numbers. We know reality of our economy vs the economy of singapore, australia, Newzeeland. Pakistan has not defaulted yet because of countless aids and loans it has got from different countries (including KSA, China, United states) and we have paid with lives in return of those aids. Realities are bitter.

Jameel Mughal® replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 05:14 AM PST 

GDP is Nothing but documentation, in west they are documenting every thing again and again all printers tables chairs etc in office are documented as assets and Counted many times plus on Top Shares, refer to worth of IT Companies for example.
And In pakistan even a big Land Factory or or Plaza Holder does not Document. That explains why GDP and PPP have disparity. If we Bring documentation to even India level GDP will increase by 60%.

MS replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 11:02 AM PST 

Khawaja Saab what a nice analysis especially the part on how people are spending money in Pakistan.

Nadeem® replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 06:03 PM PST 

I think most of the figures shown in this post does not show the real pictures, for example it has been mentioned how car showrooms are full of buyers looking to buy PKR 2.5 million cars.
Khawaja Qasim sahib mentioned that Pakistan's economy is larger than of Australia and many other developed countries, In 2015 Australians purchased over 1.1 million new cars while in the same year 165,000 new cars were sold in Pakistan despite having a population about 10 times of Australia.
This is only one example showing irrelevance of the figures given by the poster.
NO Offence just mu thoughts.
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(76064)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:19 AM PST 
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(76061)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 02:43 AM PST 
Dha Multan Allocation file

Dear CMY/ LRE Friends,

Dha Multan rates are going down as per LRE Updates. Is it a good time to buy Dha Multan allocation file? or buy 5 marla in prism?

Thank you

User_19995® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 03:36 AM PST 

the major diff is 5 marla and 1 kanal

as the max limit for 5M is 6 million and that too when it reaches dev
you can analysis ur self too

But 1 kanal has always potential to go well beyond 10 million.

DHA multan is long term investment from here on i would say min of 5 years considering the current market situation.

Zulfi@ replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 07:31 AM PST 

I see
DHA Multan after 2.5 years stagnant at the same 4 million+dc whereas prism 5 marla will be at 7 million!

Lahore 56® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 07:40 AM PST 

I think the winner will be the one who develops first. If
DHA multan does its development earlier than prism, it will be the eventual winner. However, at the moment, DHA Multan is quite far away as it is not yet launched, no balloting, no start of development....

User_19995® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 12:59 PM PST 

All of you have very valid and solid points regarding
DHA multan it will be a long term project.

Actually what i have understood about DHA is they are acquiring land and announcing projects in multi cities at the same time so that they have sufficient land and then they will be developing slowly over the period of time. As if they delay or not acquiring then the other developer might take good location and the cost will too increase over the period of time

Arif M® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 02:14 PM PST 

CMY has mentioned on numerous occasions that both are good and LONG TERM. If I were you I would not go for any of them as both are seeing some correction. However after correction, I ll choose
DHA Multan 1 Kanal over DHA Lahore 5 marla. DHA Lahore 5 marla will not be 150+ even in 5-7 years no matter how fast they develop. On other hand DHA Multan can easily be 150 in 6-7 years if Multan management delivers well.

In short. both are good. both are long term. (4-7 years). choice yours.

Habib replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 02:18 PM PST 

DHA Multan is Good for those who want to Make Home there or want to Hold till People Make Home there, ie Approx 5,7 years
Short term charm is gone or uncertain

Ejaz_EJ® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 02:57 PM PST 

People are cursing
DHA Multan now a days in the same way when they were pointing Prism before ballot, and after ballot everything changed over the night, same will happen with DHA Multan as well,

its a matter of just launching and balloting.

Prism 5 Marla cant reap the profits as Multan Kanal file can reap at maturity,

Thanks

Lahore Real Estate replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 05:02 PM PST 

Dear Sir,

Prism 5 Marla is the best option for investment purpose, in future it will serve you very well.


Lahore Real Estate
EMAIL:INFO@LREPK.COM

User_19995® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 06:14 PM PST 

@surfer sum it all in a very good way

i think this is perfect analysis.

@ Ejaz Ej

Well it is very difficult to predict like if
DHA multan would have launched it now then it would have been diff game.

@ Lone ranger

I tell you you take prism 5M, in 2-3 years it can reaches 6 million say that too is very hard. Coz see the prices of 5M where is reaching above 6 million and where it is they are way too populated.

But 1 kanal DHA multan reaches 9 million in 5-6 years so compare both ur self.

And 9 million is very less i know comparing it with adjacent societies where 1 kanal is reaching 15 million

Lastly you have to trust Allah also the money what is your fate you will get it.

anticipation@ replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 06:20 PM PST 

It is best time to exit from Multan at 4 million, if u cannot keep it for 5+ years! The
prices will dip further or remain stagnant in next 2-3 years for DHA Multan. Now real status of development will matter a lot. Even prism is passing through a tough phase of stagnation where fast track development is in progress, ring road, orange line and other linking roads are on cards....
Multan is far far behind from prism!!!! it will take more than 3 years for DHA multan to reach the present status of Prism,,,,decide urself!

anticipation@ replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 06:26 PM PST 

Comparison with
prices in adjacent societies matter when there is some development going on.
DHA 10 @66 lac is good price because prices in adjacent societies such as Wapda town lahore or DHA Phase 6/8 are 250+???? One has to see the development status of a project before comparison!

Adnan_Ali® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 07:30 PM PST 

100% agree with Surfer.
Currently buy Prism 5 Marla in any block at good rate (avoid bad
location near boundary/graveyard/village etc), i believe you can get around 35-40 cost of land and keep until 1 to 1.5 years (Target Price: 55-60) so you can get at least 20 lakh profit (50%) and i expect that DHA Multan will be almost same at that time if not launched i.e 40-45 lakh, and at that time you can either move to DHA 10 or DHA Multan depending on situation.

Its just my opinion which could be wrong because only Allah knows what will happen in future.

Anti anticipation replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 09:05 PM PST 

@anticipation, by putting @ this sign in front of your name you will not be considered as registered. koi sharam hoti hai koi haya hoti hai

User_12115® replied on Thursday, September 1, 2016 04:24 AM PST 

totally agree with surfer - pace of development will play a lot.
Prism 5 M has less room to appreciate, but it has an edge of being under development. while
DHA Multan needs a launch immediately.

AT Present - IF both were a delivered plots - 5 M would be around 45-50 but DHA MULTAN would be 10+ mn
for Prism, it may take 2-3 years but for DHA MULTAN it will be 4-5 years game

so it all depends on DHA working schedule. For short term investment Prism may win - but for a medium term investment, DHA MULTAN would win
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(76060)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 01:21 AM PST 

http://www.arabnews.com/node/977431/saudi-arabia

Situation is not that bad which some people trying to show.pakistan is full of potential specially real estate sector. Stand as one Nation
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(76059)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 01:15 AM PST 

whats happening in state life phase 2
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(76058)
Wednesday, August 31, 2016 01:13 AM PST 
TAX effect

http://www.emirates247.com/news/pakistanis-homing-in-on-dubai-properties-with-surge-in-investment-



Is it due to tax???

Pakistan® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 02:27 PM PST 

offcourse its due to tax and extra hurdles for overseas Pakistanis
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(76057)
Tuesday, August 30, 2016 09:39 PM PST 
Remittance from KSA

Today Arab news.
Foreign remittance drop 35 percent from ksa.
Near future it will be 50 percent.

Observer replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 01:13 AM PST 

http://www.arabnews.com/node/977431/saudi-arabia

User_19767® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 01:15 AM PST 

Just for topping

http://www.emirates247.com/news/pakistanis-homing-in-on-dubai-properties-with-surge-in-investment-

Gulf replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 01:41 AM PST 

@Observer: True, its not mentioned in the article thats this drop is related to Pakistan (and that was not stated by the original poster either). I think the actual drop of remittance from KSA to PAK will be more than 35%.

AHMAD HASSAN® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 02:22 AM PST 

Dear Observer, KSA is a major source of Pakistan's remittance. Country-wise KSA was on top with $5.63b in & 5.96 in . I agreed with Gulf that drop for Pakistan will be more than 35%. This is global crises that ultimately going to hit Pakistan as well as Asian countries. Not only job cuts but also big economies deffered large no of projects. Yes, it didn't stop in Lahore because GOVT only target next election(قرض چڑھاو اور ملک سنواروں). Sooner or later GOVT will realize ادھر کنواں اُدھر کھائی.

Arif M® replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 02:17 PM PST 

situation in KSA is far worse than these news tell. those who have friends and relatives working there know how bad it is. Nawaz sharif and Rahil sharif who recently met Defence minister of KSA should have raise concerns for pakistani workers. But they did NOT.

AHMAD HASSAN is on spot with his analysis.

HudaFier replied on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 04:17 PM PST 

I Work in KSA & i agree to Arif M above .. situation is very volatile (will not use the Term Worst and we are hoping it doesn't become worst) and the remittances are dropped for almost all south Asian nationalities as mostly it is the Construction sector which has hit hard and Big 2 Companies Saudi Ojer and Saudi Bin Laden have laid off alot of Employees (Mostly Labour) and Many more are unable to Pay monthly salaries ...

May be in Dubai the investor would be interested to Park the Money rather than sending Pakistan but in other GCC countries the decline is purely due to economic issue and has hit every country with low level Skilled / Unskilled Labour Force !
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